Lies of our times

Highlighting of certain comments is a way of gauging the mindsets of other people. Too often we are caught up in the cloud around our head and not listening. In that vein, here are a couple I found highly illustrative. First, Swede:

What is so aggravating is the fact that I quote scholars and learned individuals who have spent their lives studying and living among these people in the middle east. I bring you examples and quotations of political leaders to enforce my points. And yet you with little knowledge, no footnotes, trump all that is said.

The outlook there is typically black/white, that if a scholar/learned individual and Swede are in agreement then the case is closed.

I’ve read scholars on these topics, perhaps the most serious and genuine to be Norman Finkelstein. He has not only written on the Israel/Palestine conflict, but has dissected the works of Joan Peters and Alan Dershowitz and exposed them as frauds, Peters for lying, Dershowitz for plagiarism. His dedication to pursuit of truth cost him tenure at DePaul, as the underhanded Dershowitz back-stabbed him as punishment for exposing his deceitful work. Chomsky has also done yeoman’s work on the issue, himself an Ashkenazi, a product of the kibbutz, and a man willing to speak out against the powerful forces in the US that back Israel.

But having read Finkelstein, Chomsky, Benny Morris, does not grant me certitude that I am right. That is a product of a coherent world view, and that is always at issue, never settled, always subject to makeover given new evidence. If it is a matter of throwing scholars at one another, no one wins.

The matter of Israel, however, is presented to Americans as black/white good vs evil. It is far more sophisticated than that, I’ve come to realize. The whole idea of the Jewish “right of return” is designed to undermine our naive belief in the bible and the Jews as chosen people, something they wrote about themselves as part of their mostly fabricated history. One step deeper in fraud, the European interlopers are mere seeded colonists, and not even Semetic, and there for a reason having nothing to do with religion. They show their true colors at every turn. The job of US media, to mask Israeli behavior, is in part the job of news readers and journalists, but also in large part the job of scholars.

For that reason, there is tremendous Zionists backing of outfits like Heritage Foundation and other think tanks, as they produce the people who produce the words that convince Swede that he is right and everyone else wrong. They are basically lie factories.
This, from “mike”:

Meir was a psychopath…please…you stating this removes you from the realm of a reasonable person in this discussion.

Anyone purporting that the CIA or Mossad was responsible for Hamas is also clearly delusional.

The Palestinians have a lot of human capital and I’m sure a lot of very intelligent individuals, if they backed off the we have to kill all the Jews meme, perhaps a collaboration would be in order, shit like jobs and prosperity for the citizens in Gaza.

Israel has a good economy, sadly Hamas has chose to not let this possible good for their populace take hold and went back to kill the Jews, it’s a losing proposition for them.

When Hamas exists solely to portray the destruction of Israel and uses propoganda to fill their kids with this type of hate there isn’t much hope.

I’d hope the progtards that hang out here could see the difference, given that they hate capitalism I doubt it.

I put this up simply because “mike” is a pure reflection of every lie and attitude implanted in and suggested to Americans about Israel. As they go about their business, murdering, terrorizing, and stealing land and resources from Palestinians, they are shielded by Americans’ ignorance of the area and its history. The pro-Israeli memes are so deeply implanted, going all the way back to the days of Idi Amin and before, that it would take a lifetime of deprogramming to dislodge them.

So, in my mind, the matter of American public opinion, of trying to convince other people of the wrongness of the Israeli cause, is a fool’s errand. American public opinion is a potent weapon, and I am aghast at times to find that my opinions are mainstream on issues where I feel like a splinter, but isolation is a part of opinion management. If you see that Israel is a rogue state, a seeded colony, that 9/11 was a false flag operation, or other lies of our times, you will never, ever get reinforcement in mainstream media, which only exists to manage opinion, and not to inform anyone of anything.

It takes a stoic nature, pessimism of the intellect coupled with optimism of the spirit. There will be justice and accountability for criminals someday. Maybe not.

About Mark Tokarski

Just a man who likes to read, argue, and occasionally be surprised.
This entry was posted in American wilderness, Blogroll, Israel. Bookmark the permalink.

17 Responses to Lies of our times

  1. Abe Froman says:

    It kind of made me chuckle just to see the swede used the term “learned scholar”. I couldn’t tell if he was actually writing that in anger or tongue in cheek. I think you finally got under his skin.


  2. steve kelly says:

    IMF and World Bank attack Ukraine, as ISIS invades Lebanon. Iraq and Afghanistan are death traps in utter chaos. Americans are worried, but not about WWIV (if you include “the cold war” as #III). We’ve got back-to-school shopping specials, Zinke vs. Lewis, and another NFL season to handicap. Exhausting stuff, I think I need a beer.


    • Rob Kailey says:

      Keep pissing in the wind, Steve. It might surprise you to find, should you bother to take a look, that people, even dumb ‘Murkin people, are just living their lives. You know, working, playing, sleeping, sexing, living and dying. Only the halfwit Teapeeps are crying out in butt-puckered fear that no one else is as concerned for ‘liberty’ and ‘truth’ as they are. Oh wait, the Teapeeps, plus one.

      We are not headed for World War 4 any more today than we were 10 years ago, or 20 years or 30 years ago. Back then in ’84, the same (literally) bunch of screechers were proclaiming doom. The Senate was no more functional, the Moral Majority was on the airwaves, mega-churches were involved in policy and the Miami Dolphins had a darling quarterback who took them to the Super Bowl (and he got schooled by Joe Montana.) We lived with the threat of the Soviets and nuclear death, and we still went back-to-school shopping. You know what else we had? Scolds who told us all what we really should be concerned about as opposed to actually living our lives. They just didn’t have a platform to reinforce their self-righteous twaddle like the Internet offers you.

      Here’s another significant thing you might want to consider (but probably won’t). People can hold more than one thought, one goal, one aspiration and one worry at a time. What tends to exhaust us are jackasses who keep telling us all who we are when they obviously don’t know shit about us. Jackasses at work, jackasses at the store, and most especially, jackasses online. Wil Wheaton has a modern version of the most fundamental rule of any moral system, regardless of religion. That rule has been called “Golden”, and the philosopher Kant proved it with a logical thesis. Kant says: take no action you would not wish any other to take in your position. Christianity (and Islam) hold that one should not do unto others what one would not have done unto them. Wheaton’s thesis is much more simple, and you have violated it grossly. “Don’t be a dick.” That’s simple, Steve. People around you, people you rely on (though you obviously think you don’t), people who have lives are living as they see best fit. You’re being a dick when you judge them based on your foolish standards of what thoughts they should join you in having. They don’t, they won’t, they shouldn’t. You’re being a dick. Don’t be a dick.


      • Abe Froman says:

        I saw what you did there. Marino was and is the better quarterback. Steve has a problem with his delivery. If he wants to convince others to agree with his point of view (and why else would he do what he does) it’s kind of counter productive. But he’s good people. I mistakenly thought he was a trustafarian like Matt Koehler but he is actually a volunteer.


      • People can hold more than one thought, one goal, one aspiration and one worry at a time.

        True enough. When those thoughts clash internally, we call it cognitive dissonance, the normal state of the American mind.


        • Rob Kailey says:

          Maybe someday we can have a congenial discussion about how societal rationalization is actually an evolutionary advantage, allowing and enabling arts like fashion, theator, music, poetry and sports. But today is likely not that day.


          • I cannot be above it as I am not smart enough, but am smart enough to be aware of it. You’re a smart guy. There are things we are told which are plainly obviously lies, such as magic bullets and aircraft slicing through steel buildings like a knife through butter, all utterly impossible, defying logic and physics, yet dogged doctrinaire supporters of power demand that we pretend to believe these things to be real and undeniably true. This is the source of cognitive dissonance, power over our perceptions, to tell us that we see one thing that is actually something else. Those of us who do not see what power tells us to see are indeed the odd ones.


  3. steve kelly says:


    Great speech. Been stressing over back-to-school fashions? Pot calling the kettle black beats a pair of duces every time. I know I’ve really gotta’ work on my touchy-feely and political correctness. Anything else? I’ll keep pitching, you can keep hating it. Not a problem. Now, where’s that beer?


    • Rob Kailey says:

      The problem, Steve, is that you keep ‘pitching’ to friendly batters, those sympathetic to your well polished arrogance. That’s why you stick so close to only two websites. Given his notice concerning others, I’m surprised Mark hasn’t commented on that.

      Abe is probably correct that you are “good people”. At least it’s easy to seem so when you run down everyone else for not existing to your highest moral standards. However, Abe is definitely correct that you are being counter-productive. Ask yourself this, do you actually care to help these low-brow consumers, the common rabble? Or is your interest in shaming them to follow you? It certainly appears to be the latter.


  4. lizard19 says:

    O online comment threads!


  5. steve kelly says:


    I pitch to throw strikes. What business is it of yours anyway, where I comment, and where I don’t. Not looking for followers. Not running for anything. I’m learning about things I didn’t know before and passing it along for anyone who might be interested. Judge me all you like, insult me, call me names, whatever makes your day. You, and Abe, seem to think I’m trying to produce something, an outcome, or result, and that I am going about it all wrong (“counter-productive”). Sorry to disappoint. Your grasping at straws cracks me up. Why either of you care to “coach” me, make me a better person, a more effective leader, or fine-tune my morality, I haven’t a clue. I had a girlfriend like that once. I’m nobody’s project. Abe and I have agreed that he simply doesn’t like my style. I think we’re both fine with that.

    To summarize: “The problem” as I see it is yours. Kailey, what is your problem? Really, just spit it out.


    • Rob Kailey says:

      “My” problem is that you casually, foolishly and without any cause insult pretty much anyone who isn’t you, or whom you don’t knee-jerk agree with. That isn’t a matter of “style”. That’s just being a dick. And that’s why you only comment where you know that no one will call you out for being a dick. It’s easy to throw strikes when no one is swinging to hit the ball.


      • Steve’s comments, to me, generally come in on a non-personal level. The ones here directed at you are not his style, he’s responding in kind. I’ve been impressed over the years that he assesses people on ability without regard to his own personal philosophy. Matt Singer, for example, was a Professional Democrat in my view, but for SK, someone to be reckoned with. Same in politics, who is doing what and why, he has an arm’s length approach that I don’t.

        I don’t understand your personal animosity, but urge you to get to know the guy as I have. There’s no agenda.


        • Rob Kailey says:

          Mark, it is not a personal animosity, but rather a social one. I tend to feel that whenever I read someone dissing the species with no real foundation to speak of. Sandra Bernhard made a comedy career out of the phrase and attitude “worship me, pigs”. She was being ironic, and actually pretty funny. It doesn’t come off quite so well when people discuss, completely irony free, how people are “sheeple” or distracted by the very living of their lives, and engaging in the activities which make their lives worth living. Insulting poor distracted ‘Murkins as a general swipe, without a hint of irony or sarcasm, doesn’t make that action any less insulting or more impersonal. It’s still a dig, common to oligarchs, Teapeeps and sadly, progressives. What’s sadder still is that progressives don’t understand why it’s insulting.

          Still, your point is made. All around, I think Steve is a good guy; he’s just generally clueless about the people he attempts to interact with. I’ve said my peace and in deference, I’m done.


        • abe froman says:

          He’s mad because Steve made a sweeping bash on football fans, which I agree was uncalled for. If Steve had said that fans of the Cincinnati reds are drooling pinheads and Barry Larkin & Eric Davis are effeminate twerps it may have gotten the same reaction out of mark.


  6. Larry Kralj says:

    Um, point of order. Steve Kelly has been in the trenches a long, looong time! rk has been in the peanut gallery forever pitching peanuts! It’s what he does. (when he isn’t drooling on himself) He couldn’t hold Steve Kelly’s JOCK strap! kailey, and you ran for WHAT office again? Un huh. Best stick with peanuts, dude. Steve made his bones long ago. kaliey is still jumping up and down trying to draw attention to himself by attacking people in the hopes of being relevant to SOME one out there. Good luck with that.

    For the last forty years or so I have enjoyed the writings of Steve Kelly and his bold efforts on behalf of the environment and politics. kalie is a jonny come lately who has no thunder of his own, and now mistakes his own flatulence for thunder! He only fools other fools!


  7. Steve W says:

    Mostly well said, Larry. That’s two posts in a row you’ve written that I basically agree with. The former was your praise of Rob’s post about Israel and Palestine and James Connors. I too thought that was one of Kailey’s better posts that I’d read.


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