I was not prepared to accept this comment from XE on first reading. It sat uncomfortably even as I know I can be fooled, and have been time and again.
I watched the movie Grizzly Man in 2005, and we met Timothy Treadwell at a lecture in either Bozeman or Billings, Montana. That created personal interest. What I wrote before was the result of twelve-year-old memories.
Back then I did not watch movies with a discerning eye. I still thought jets flew through buildings like a knife through butter. I thought that elections were real, that news was essentially a (distorted) reflection of reality, and that a movie labeled “documentary” by its makers would be an honest enterprise.
I had to watch the movie again, and did yesterday afternoon.
It is my opinion that the movie Grizzly man depicts a real event, that Timothy and Amie were really killed, and that Werner Herzog used his craft to make the event interesting and both visually and emotionally stirring.
- Timothy Dexter’s full name is Timothy William Winthorpe Dexter. His mother’s maiden name is Treadwell. That name is in ThePeerage.com. Though not a prominent name, I know from acquaintances that this line has been traced back to John Alden of the Mayflower.
- When Dexter was trying to get work as an actor, an agent advised him to use Treadwell instead of Dexter. Perhaps that agent knew something about The Peerage, and that he would stand a better chance of employment using that name, since the acting profession is composed entirely of people from the blood lines. (From this point forward I will refer to him as “Treadwell.”)
- Treadwell traveled about the country showing slides of his life with the brown bears* life of Alaska, mostly aimed at school children. I personally witnessed one of his presentations in Montana prior to 2003.
*Technically there are only two species of bears in North America, the “brown” and “black.” Because brown bears are large and dangerous, they have largely been killed off and are now confined to a few unsettled areas. The term “grizzly” was coined by Lewis and/or Clark.
- Treadwell used his slide shows to raise money, though I doubt he could have financed his trip to Montana with the slim offerings we gave him that night. His needs were simple but included travel, provisions, camping gear and clothing, video cameras with many, many batteries, and a satellite phone.
- The movie Grizzly Man has a lot of footage that places Treadwell in close proximity with those Alaskan brown bears, an extremely dangerous species. He did not know how much danger he was in. The camera is almost always stationary in these encounters. (He had two cameras and a tripod.)
- I saw no evidence of green-screening in the movie. The footage, all shot outdoors, shows blue skies and none of the halo lines seen when a person or object is placed in front of a screen.
- Many disinterested people, including friends, park rangers, film makers and an ex-girlfriend testify to Treadwell’s presence in Alaska and on Kodiak Island over a period of thirteen years. He only filmed his stay there over the last five.
- I questioned Treadwell’s ability to shoot such high quality footage, but indeed his cameras were, according to a discussion I read on-line, three-CCD cameras capable of shooting high quality video. His intent was to make a movie so he needed very good equipment. It was no accident.
- It could be that while his stays in Alaska were indeed real, for dramatic purposes his death was staged so it could be memorialized in a movie. I hold out that possibility, but think it unlikely.
- Those testifying to seeing the remains of both Treadwell and Amie Huguenard included several park rangers and bush pilot Willy Fulton. He is a real person, a real bush pilot, as testified by this video which would not have been made merely to support a hoax, in my opinion. He could well have been paid to lie, however. His testimony is critical. So I hold out that possibility.
The coroner, Franc G. Fallico, struck me as an obvious actor. He was skilled on camera, emotive, and even a little overboard, as I viewed him. However, there was a man by that name who was the Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Alaska. He died in 2008 at age 66 of lymphoma. Even if that death was fake (I doubt it), he has only this one movie to his IMDB credit, and he is listed as an Alaska official. So I accept him as real.
The closing scenes of the movie have Treadwell walking off into the sunset with foxes trailing him. I thought that had to be Werner Herzog inspired footage, but indeed foxes appear throughout the movie. These are not game farm animals, but rough and ragged creatures as foxes tend to be in real life. Treadwell indeed befriended them, and in a most unethical way: He fed them.
The other closing shot is of Treadwell on a beautiful stream bank walking away with two bears following him. This is indeed idyllic. If Treadwell shot this footage, he was fully aware that he was making a movie. And indeed he was. He knew that. That was his intention all along. The footage is beautifully composed and framed. The bears behave like tame animals.
All of this leads me to believe that Timothy Treadwell was a real man who really lived with bears in Alaska, and died there.
The usual narrative at this website is that I write about things that I can show to be fake. I cannot show this movie to be either real or fake. It is true that there is no evidence of death shown in the movie, but if Treadwell and Huguenard’s bodies were indeed eaten, leaving only fragments recovered from the stomach of a 1,000 pound creature, this is understandable. The lone proof-of-death then is the melodramatic testimony of the coroner, Franc G. Fallico. However, he was either a real person doing a real job, or he was paid to lie and this is a high-level hoax requiring participation of many parties. Everything is possible, but I think it unlikely.
In trying to understand this movie and this man, I came across interesting discussions of Treadwell and his delusions, one of which was that bears can emotionally bond to humans. I have also done some reading on Alaskan brown bears, not enough of course, but enough to understand that they are powerful and can be ferocious, and mostly fight among themselves for food, which is abundant in the salmon runs. They do not have sweet personalities, they cannot be tamed. They are solitary creatures and don’t even bond to one another – males will kill young cubs to allow the mother to stop producing milk so she can mate again. I doubt that cubs remember their mother on maturity – maybe just enough to avoid mating with her.
They do not hunt humans, but appear to be tolerant of us from a distance. We are not a food source.
Treadwell anthropomorphized them to a dangerous degree, a danger not only to himself, but to the thousands of kids who he lectured about their docility. Fortunately, they are far away in Alaska, and these children are not likely to visit them. The fact that Treadwell survived thirteen years with them (eschewing electric fencing and bear spray) is testimony to his good luck. It ran out.
Treadwell’s mother says that he took to drinking while in college, but his own testimony is that he used to get stinking drunk in high school, and had a severe alcohol dependency problem. In Los Angeles drugs got to him and he nearly died of an overdose. He sought, on advice of a friend, solace in Alaska. The bears then became his “AA,” his way of staying sober.
I just recently I met a man who in normal conversation let me know that he has been sober now for eighteen years. This is not a new experience. He was a compulsive talker and terrible listener, and I could not wait for the break. This compulsive nature seems part of addictive behavior. Thanks to our writer Steve Kelly, I read the book In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Vancouver, B.C. physician Gabor Maté. It is a very sympathetic treatment of addiction and leads me to believe that those who can overcome it, as Treadwell did, often need to replace substance addiction with other compulsions. These manifest in other less suicidal ways. But Treadwell’s replacement compulsion indeed manifested in suicidal behavior.
Let’s not forget, however, that Treadwell was an actor. His onscreen persona was often exaggerated and girlish. He could have been the love child of John Denver and Church Lady. Denver struck me as a phony, the high-pitched laugh and “I love you’s” tossed out on stage mere affectations hiding a much darker person. Treadwell too had that dark side. (His hair also resembled Denver’s.) Church Lady was that hilarious and condescending bitch seen on Saturday Night Live, judgmental and quick with the put down.
But I have come full circle now, at first thinking the film real, then turning around and thinking it a hoax, and now again that it depicts a real event. It was a major motion picture, and needed some augmentation and editing to make it entertaining, but I don’t regard the augmentation – showcasing of the beautiful Alaskan landscape and the behavior Treadwell around the bears – as evidence of a hoax. It is just a slick movie, but not done to deceive.
Timothy Treadwell was an actor, but also a recovering alcoholic with compulsive tendencies. He was also a vulnerable, flawed, foolish, lucky, and is now, for real, dead human being.
If you disagree, if you think I am being hoaxed, I look forward to the discussion. No doubt I missed some things. I always do.
Piece of Mindful 
Well, FWIW, I would go with fake unless proven real rather than otherwise. As you mentioned, wild animals are very unpredictable and typically, wary of man. Grizzlies even more so. Don’t even get me started on the bipedal ones. Not all of them can I prove faked. The Danielle Van Dam case being a prime example of one that defies logic and continuity yet is still accepted as real, but is somewhat difficult to be proven fake. And I have spent far more time on that than I will allow on this one. Some of them are just that way. At the end of the day, the proof, if one calls it that, is dependent on a handful of .Gov employees and related businesses. But then…aren’t they always?
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What happens on Kodiak Island is not typical – these are not ordinary animals in a constant state of forage-or-die. These are brown bears to have grown to immense size due to the abundance of food, the salmon runs. Consequently, they are less wary of threats, and while they do not view humans as a food source, seem almost indifferent to us. Having been in Alaska and seen them foraging (not on Kodiak Island, but in Lake Clark National Park), standing but perhaps fifty yards away, this was my impression. They just don’t care about us. (Our only refuge had they decided to charge would have been an outdoor restroom.) As noted by the Park Service, Treadwell was the first human ever killed by bears on Kodiak.
Anyway, “false until proven true” is not enough … I went into this trying to prove it false, and could not. I have to say the preponderance of evidence is on the ‘real’ side, perhaps 80/20.
Incidentally, we had dinner with a couple from Alaska last year while hiking in Switzerland. They were emphatic that the real threat to humans in Alaska was not the brown, but rather the black bears. She said that the black bears will stalk, kill and eat people, far different from their behavior down here in the lower 48, where they are seen as benign. I have chased a black bear off our back porch by throwing a broom at him, something I would never attempt with a brown.
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I cannot make a well informed comment regarding Treadwell as I only heard/read the sound bites/ headlines at the time and have never followed up or watched the movie. I do tend to err on the side of faked, or at best partially faked, these days.
So I am commenting on your reference to the Van Dam case. It is so seldom mentioned and yet is almost as elaborate, complicated, and mind boggling an extravaganza as 9/11 in its own smaller and more local way. I followed this case in its every minutiae and detail (and still do) because I saw something early on via court TV that caused an immediate “this guy is innocent” to arise. Of course I can no way know for certain but I am at 99.5% in believing he is innocent and 100% that the prosecution did NOT prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
I’m not exactly sure how it happened but I support Westerfield, who is on death row, to this day. We correspond regularly and I and others in our little support group have visited him at San Quentin. Yes, he is the same person as seen on TV. That said it has crossed my mind that this case has so many of the earmarks of a hoax that I realize it is a definite possibility. If so the hoaxers are going to great lengths and Westerfield’s job is to write letters to people and show up at San Quentin when visitors are scheduled. As an actor he should get a “Hoaxy Award”!
Miles Mathis has said that death row inmates cannot receive general visitors. Either that is not true or the Westerfield visits are staged for a few supporters. Why would they bother? They could simply say that visits from other than attorney, clergy, and close family are not allowed. Therefore I think it was a “real” case but someone(s) in high places locally are responsible for Danielle’s death and Westerfield is the chosen patsy to take the fall.
OR Danielle did not meet her demise and lives among us today and the whole thing was staged as a distraction from something else of import as well as to fortify the circulating meme that paints our neighbor men as pigs, pedophiles, rapists, and murderers. It’s certainly NOT the ruling elite, but the average man, who cannot be trusted. In that case the whole cast and crew were in on the production.
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Barb says, “I and others in our little support group have visited him at San Quentin…Miles Mathis has said that death row inmates cannot receive general visitors. Either that is not true or the Westerfield visits are staged for a few supporters. ”
Sorry, Barb. If I had actually visited a death row inmate, specifically Westerfield, I would be more emphatic than “Either that is not true”.
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Interesting case. And it is linked to JonBenét Ramsey where Mark wrote about; James Selby who claimed to be responsible for the murder of Van Dam also claimed responsibility for the murder of JonBenét…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Danielle_van_Dam
“In closing arguments, Feldman argued that no evidence of Westerfield was found in the van Dam residence or at the body dump site, and that a foreign hair found under Danielle’s body was not his. In rebuttal, Dusek argued that it is plausible for an intruder to enter a home without leaving trace evidence, especially if he is taking appropriate precautions. Conversely, Dusek argued, the nature and volume of Danielle’s trace evidence in Westerfield’s home and motor home, and on his jacket, allows no reasonable explanation other than guilt.”
Is this credible? I have no idea how California law works, but without any direct evidence linking the suspect to the victim or crime scene, is it possible to convict and sentence to death?
Earlier, it was said that Westerfield brought his clothes to a dry cleaner (instead of just burning/hiding the clothes?), but they found two small blood stains of Van Dam on his jacket. Is it possible to trace blood and identify it as someone’s after dry cleaning?
And this:
“Some searchers had decided to search the Dehesa Road area, near the trail, after detectives discovered traces of Danielle’s blood in David Westerfield’s motor home, because Dehesa Road was a possible route Westerfield could have taken to get to the desert”?
Is it common the police (it doesn’t say private detectives) shares such information with citizens and let them search at a possible crime scene, instead of doing that core task themselves?
“The child was found missing about 9 a.m. Feb. 2.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jun/11/local/me-girl11
Is this credible? A 7-year old going to bed (late) at 10:30 pm, but her parents only find her missing at about 9 am??? What kind of family is this? Children that age normally wake up much earlier, and responsible parents too. Damon was sleeping earlier, so should have checked on his daughter in the morning a bit earlier than 9 am, not?
Strange story.
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Strange story, no doubt. My (attempted) point was Barb’s lack of assertiveness, considering her visits and correspondence with the accused.
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Well I am glad I am not the only one skeptical of the Van Dam case. Not meaning to divert the thread Mark so please forgive me ( again ). The main reason I chose it was that I considered myself to be a good choice to crack it as I had far more knowledge of the geography, and other aspects than most of the jurors, lawyers, and others seemed to. The number of long shots we are expected to believe simply defy description. And If I were one of the jurors I think my head would have exploded long before the trial ended. Allow me to toss out a few of the things I consider significant. There are far to many to list. The bug expert testified that the body was there for 2 weeks tops. Just off a major road, well within smelling distance, without any buzzards noticed, with the whole Tri-state looking for her. And ( drum roll) stripped, and wearing the necklace? The one in the missing poster? Ya gotta be f’n kidding me. Not an ice cubes chance on a hot day in hell. I would also point out that it was discovered on the last hour of the last day of search on a hunch that he took the back route from Coronado. Never mind that he went back to Sabre Springs after Coronado and was even photographed by the media there. Another point I would offer is that none of the 6 adults who last saw her alive were treated as suspects. But they at least included a dog that didn’t bark, hat tip to Sherlock fans I suppose. As I said, I can’t prove it with 100% certainty. But I would go with 99.5%
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Why don’t you do a write-up, and we can publish it here. If you need photos and exhibits, we can assist.
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Ok, but it will take some time. Lotta trial transcripts to go over again. And not all of the relevant info was released to the public. If I can pull it off it will be quite an eye opener. You can help with the editing, Thanks!
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The stadium sized crimson gonfalon for me in this story is Werner Herzog’s participation. I do like Herzog’s films but I don’t trust him as far as I can throw him. The quoted segment below, about his Chauvet Cave “documentary”, could fit right in with the suspicions of the “demise” of Treadwell plus One. (And just how legit are Chauvet et Lascaux? Very fishy in my view… also, there’s this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/france/aquitaine/articles/Lascaux-Cave-and-the-rise-of-the-fake-attraction/)
“However, near the end of the doc, in typical Herzog fashion is a (rather unnecessary, but amusing) post-script about some nearby Albino crocodiles. According to Herzog, the crocodiles are actually the m[u]tated offspring of animals that have been living in a French greenhouse heated by the runoff from a nearby nuclear power plant. And of course Herzog attempts to use the crocs [TM: indeed] to form some sort of absurd and tenuous correlation between the animals and the cave dwellers — their dreams, their aspirations and their unknown ambitions.
Of course it’s fictitious and that’s not a spoiler, Herzog has maintained for several years — that while some charge it to be irresponsible fabrication — that his films contain an “ecstatic truth” rather than the “accountant’s truth.” We’re to glean — from several interviews on this very subject that Herzog has given — that “accountant’s truth” is dull unsexy fact and “ecstatic truth” is Herzog’s version which “illuminates” the story. But this writer is not sure he’s ever seen Herzog fess up to his tricks in such a bold fashion on TV. He usually just simply gives the somewhat cryptic, but telling, “ecstatic truth” quotes. Until now.
“It’s a wild post-script, it’s a wild science-fiction sort of fantasy at the end,” Herzog told Stephen Colbert on “The Colbert Report” last night. “I want the audience with me in wild fantasy in something that illuminates them. You see if I were only fact based, the book of books in literature then would be the Manhattan phone directory — four million entries, everything correct. But it [flies] out of my ears and I do not know: do they dream at night? Does Mr. Jonathan Smith cry in his pillow at night? We do not know anything when we check the correct entries in the phone directory. I am not this kind of a filmmaker.” Best. Quote. Ever.
(Full article) http://www.indiewire.com/2011/06/werner-herzog-fesses-up-to-the-fake-mutated-albino-crocodiles-in-cave-of-forgotten-dreams-118193/
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Great links Tyrone. Especially the first, “The choice between seeing the real thing and being a part of its ruin simply by standing next to it – or enjoying a detailed state-of-the-art reproduction – is surely no choice at all… the discussion has already been held, and a conclusion reached. Replicas of fragile sites will become more and more common.”
How many replicas of the past have we been sold as truth?
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I’d say, as legit as the Piltdown man.
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Tyrone,
Yes, Herzog’s involvement in this is a huge red flag.
Are you familiar with the Herzog documentary, “Wings of Hope”?
From Wiki:
“The film explores the story of Juliane Koepcke, a German Peruvian woman who was the sole survivor of Peruvian flight LANSA Flight 508 following its mid-air disintegration after a lightning strike in 1971. Herzog was inspired to make this film since he had narrowly avoided taking the same flight while he was location scouting for Aguirre, Wrath of God. His reservation was canceled due to a last minute change in itinerary.”
It turns out that Ms Koepcke survived th fall (after the plane disintegrated in mid-air) …
“The LANSA Lockheed Electra OB-R-941 commercial airliner was struck by lightning during a severe thunderstorm and broke up in mid-air, disintegrating at 3.2 km (10,000 ft). Koepcke, who was seventeen years old, fell to earth still strapped into her seat. She survived the fall with only a broken collarbone, a gash to her right arm, and her right eye swollen shut.[2] “I was definitely strapped in [the airplane seat] when I fell,” she said later. “It must have turned and buffered the crash, otherwise I wouldn’t have survived.”[3]
Her first priority was to find her mother, who had been seated next to her, and her search was unsuccessful. She later found out her mother had initially survived the crash, but died from her injuries several days later.[4]”
It’s good to know that simply being buckled into your airplane seat will help you to survive a fall from 10,000 feet with only a broken collarbone, and a swollen eye.
But before we start balking at the unlikely event that two people would actually survive such a crash/fall, Wiki sets us straight…
“It was later discovered that as many as 14 other passengers also survived the initial fall from the disintegrated plane but were unable to seek help and died while awaiting rescue.[7]”
So, while missing the ill fated flight clearly haunted Mr. Herzog (for 25 years), and inspired him to ultimately document the tragedy on film, chances are, he would have survived the fall, anyway.
It’s too bad, really, because the documentary would have been that much more interesting with his first hand account.
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a couple of more points…
the scenario of Herzog “barely missing the flight” is interesting, when compared to the “Grizzly Man” tragedy occurring after he wasn’t able to catch his initially scheduled flight, thus sending him back to his doom.
Also, there is much speculation about just how Koepcke survived her fall, with all due credit given to the row of airplane seats she was strapped into.
Of course, if her mother was strapped in next to her, and she also survived the fall, why would Koepcke have to go searching for her at all? She would be sitting right beside her.
Unless her mother somehow survived the fall without the benefits of the miraculous seats?
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Oh yes, that story I remember. Crazy script. Thanks for the reminder, will take it on soon.
I do like Herzogs films though, especially the ones of the volcanoes are excellent.
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I am certainly ajumble about this, my problem being that I met Treadwell and judged him to be a flake … if he was being set up for a fake death, well, events like that do not play out before crowds of thirty people in Bozeman, Montana. And I judged his alcoholism to have taken a back seat to another obsession. And I judged him to have humanized the bears … I am tired of typing out anthropomorphized. I can see him being brought in as a late entrant to the project, being told he’ll get a big payout but has to go back to being a Dexter. In that scenario, he is told to spend one more week on Kodiak Island, and his death will be faked, and they will bring in Willy and Franc and Jewel is in on the project and Amie is in too … just turn over all your film and disappear.
Franc turned out to be real, as did Willy.
Like I said … 80/20.
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Treadwell wasn’t killed on Kodiak Island–he was killed in Katmai National Park in southwest Alaska.
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You’re right of course, but I would insert the word “fake-” in front of your two uses of the word “killed.”
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Just one impression I didn’t include in my original brief comment, fresh from watching a film I’d never seen before – I got the feeling that Treadwell was merely performing in front of a green screen with a professionally shot wild life film going on in the background. As for those stories about rib cages being spotted from the air, bears sitting on human remains, severed arms with ticking watches still on the wrist, well, I ask you!
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The green screen question … presence of a green screen would certainly give the lie to the entire movie. Absence does not mean it was an honest effort. Nonetheless, since I am not an expert on the matter (I did not see evidence of green screening) I am going to seek a favor from a man I know in the advertising business who is very familiar with the tricks of the trade. I’ll let him settle it. He will not need to watch the entire movie, just a few scenes, so might be willing to do this for me.
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After walking off into the sunset with foxes trailing him, and walking away with two bears following him. Did he have to go back and get the camera? Seems like many of the survival theme TV shows popped up afterwards with behind the scenes camera people having coolers filled with sandwiches and beverages.
“13” years in Katmai National Park, so he started when he was “33”?
What year did you attend his lecture?
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I was troubled by that, but of course he came back and got the cameras. My assumption, and yes I am still troubled by these scenes, is that he was mentally constructing a movie and realized such scenes would be useful. The bears on the stream are, yes, too perfect. I feel the ground crumbling beneath me.
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What do you think about the big financial frauds, like Worldcom, Enron (Kenneth lay fake death?), Bernard Madoff?
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The only one we touched on here was Madoff … guy has never spent a day in jail. Use the search box above right.
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What about CEO Dennis Kozlowski and the Tyco fraud?
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One thing I have learned is that we are all capable of doing the research. One essential element, some native intelligence. Another, intense curiosity. If you have these traits, please pursue this matter, and bring it back. If found worthy, I will publish it with due credit.
Don’t be intimidated. We all start with few tools.
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how do we really know if any news story is fake or real.
some troll gets shot in the middle of the night in the bad part of town.
its reported on the news, I wasn’t there when there when the supposed shooting happened. this is an example of an unproveable news story.
cannnot prove if real or fake.
what I do is use the numbers, they tell if the story is fake or real.
lets look at Timothy Treadwell on wikipedia
Born Timothy William Dexter
April 29, 1957 (4+2+9+1+9+5+7)=37=3*7=21 the magic 21
Long Island, New York, U.S.
Died October 5, 2003 (aged 46) (1+5+2+3+4+6) =21 the magic 21
Katmai National Park and Preserve, Alaska, U.S
what are the odds this guy was born and died with 21 as the numbers
21 is directly across from 33 on a compass,
duality, they love duality
fake story
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Stevie, your calculations also amount to “33”. My way of interpreting the birth and death dates equals “99”. Numbers are merely indicators; they don’t “prove” anything.
21 is across from 33 on a compass? Please help me understand this.
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21 is indeed across from 33…actually 9 and 9…so never mind and thanks.
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Please explain, I had the same question you asked. 21 and 33 degrees? On a 360 degree compass rose? “9 and 9”? Don’t understand it.
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Gaia, Think military time…2100 hours is 9, 12 hours later is 9, 21 + 12 =33.
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Gaia, we have found ourselves lost in the wrong thread. Big Swede should be accusing us of pooping on the ground and something to do with a stick, I can’t recall.
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That comment is no longer with us. I have a request in to an advertiser who had done extensive work with photos, green screen the whole shebang. I asked him to analyze the scenes in which Treadwell is with the bears for evidence of green screens. If so, I regard that as proof of a hoax. If not, it does not prove either that the movie depicted a real event or not and we are left with other devices. I will accept his work on the subject as final – he has been working with TV commercials for decades.
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Thanks, Mark. This will be interesting. I would say the wait is unbearable, but that would be pandaering.
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firstly google images of compass
then look at the image of the compass
at the 30 degrees on the compass, under the 30 is 330, draw a straight line through the compass from 30,330 and you get 210,150 or 21 and 15
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I agree, they don’t prove anything
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With the internet, youtube and blogs present today, I would think that there would be more “leakage” – information coming out about all of these projects and the peerage. The TPTB can’t possibly control everything or mostly everything like in the past (like TV stations, newspapers). Pre-internet it was probably much easier to control the information flow and mass perception. There must be some people on the “inside” who have a conscience left who don’t agree with what is going on.
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That comment is a rewording of the commonly held belief that someone would have talked. what we find instead is an amazing legion of people who do not speak out of school, not during life not on death beads or in hidden memoirs. From that I suspect an enforcement mechanism.
Suggested reading:
https://cuttingthroughthefog.com/2017/08/09/too-many-people-on-the-viability-of-conspiratorial-beliefs/
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You would think so, however, I am inclined to believe that the control measures, as in negative and positive reinforcements, are persuasive enough to prevent active participants from being loose with their tongues.
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Man, waaay wrong. In fact, with the Internet, the Cloud, IoT and all things digital… enforcing and control is much easier than in an analog world.
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I’d go so far to claim this is the very purpose of the internet. After all it was (is) a DARPA project, remember ?
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Not sure if this is just a coincidence but check out this headline today from Yahoo News:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/apos-absolutely-grisly-apos-woman-144415242.html
“Absolutely grisly.” A story about another gender-ambiguous blonde mauled to death by the animals she thought were her friends. A possible reaction to the discussion here? The article links to this news report:
http://wtvr.com/2017/12/15/bethany-stephens-obit/
Her body was reportedly discovered in the woods off “Manakin” Road. LOL. Now I haven’t seen Grizzly Man for a very long time but I seem to recall someone talking about Treadwell’s distinctive blonde bowl-cut. That he was hiding his receding hairline by always meticulously combing it forward. Well, with Bethany Lynn Stephens we see the complete opposite. Blonde hair pulled painfully backward exposing what appears to be a sketchy hairline. Anyway, not sure if that’s just a coincidence as well.
In the news report video, the awkward line from her friend about the “weight on her shoulders” stuck out to me. I wondered if there could be some connection. All I could find was this final quote at the bottom of the page on IMDB:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427312/quotes
The coroner: It was on his wrist.
[touches her shoulder]
What was this scene from the movie? Is it significant?
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Man, the more I think about this, the more it sinks in that it is a hoax. Anyway, your comment went to moderation for more than two links. I don’t control that. Not a big deal, but you have to wait for it to appear.
I cannot imagine two pets just turning on their owner like that.
And yes, Treadwell combed his hair forward to hide a receding hairline. Something else that struck me … he was clean shaven throughout. Anyone who has spent time in the woods knows that grooming is a pain in the ass. Shaving is about the last thing you think about.
And yes, there was a still ticking scene where Jewel is presented with his watch.
Fake. Gotta be fake. I am switching from 80/20 real to 40/60 fake. It’s been bugging me all day.
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It’s possible the algorithm just fed this story to me on the Yahoo homepage because I’d read your Grizzly Man posts and looked up a few things about Treadwell. But that’s very suspicious it just happened to be posted today. Could it really have been created especially as a response to your posts? I dunno. Could it be an amazingly coincidental genuine news story? I highly doubt it! The body found off Manakin Road gives it away for me, in addition to the improbability of a person’s own dogs completely turning on their owner like that.
I did manage to track down a copy of Grizzly Man on YT. The version was badly cropped but I did manage to see the shoulder-touching scene with the watch and the coroner (who certainly seems very actor-like, as mentioned). Again, the awkward, seemingly scripted line from the pit bull news report struck me.
“She did everything for everybody. She never thought of herself first. It was always everybody else. No matter how much weight she had on her shoulders, she pretended it didn’t matter.”
The watch scene where the coroner touches Jewel’s shoulder twice is at 24:38.
Herzog asks her about Amie and she suddenly “gets emotional” after not having much of a reaction to the watch (which you’d think would really choke her up). She’s strangely swinging between caring and not caring throughout the scene, which goes along with the line from the news report about Stephens “pretending” the weight on her shoulders “didn’t matter.” I dunno, maybe that’s a stretch. But the description of Stephens as someone who “never thought of herself first” certainly fits Amie who didn’t run to save herself from the bear attack and lost her life helping Treadwell.
Anyway, even if those connections don’t hold up I do think this phony pit bull story was likely intended to echo Treadwell’s, especially with the key quote from the Sheriff “It was an absolutely grisly mauling!”
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Oops, that’s 25:38 in the YT video (it should still be properly queued up though).
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Stephens’ father called 911 Thursday, at about 8:18 p.m. (Aces and Eights Dead “Man’s” Hand, maybe h(e)i(r)s real name was Glen Allen.)
Sheriff’s deputies arrived and spent 60 to 90 minutes attempting to catch the dogs…(s)he weighed 125 (8) pounds and the dog’s weight was 125 (8) pounds. And Manakin Road (Mannequin), but even better “akin to a man.” Cant’ make this stuff up. Oh wait, they just did.
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That “grisly” mauling is really “unbearable”.
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A lot of spook numbers with Bethany Lynn Stephens age 22. 22 is the most powerful number in occult numerology; it is the Master Builder number. Police called at 8:18; police spent 60 to 90 minutes…
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LOL, “akin to man.” I didn’t consider that variation. An image search on “Bethany Lynn Stephens” does reveal a rather odd-looking woman (in addition to the Confederate flag making a background appearance). She reminds me a lot of a simmy version of former Playboy playmate, Hefner girlfriend and “reality TV star” Kendra Wilkinson. And it appears she also has a thing for dogs. Check out this clip from 2013 that starts out with “Billy Bush” declaring “We’ve got a little chaos going on behind the scenes.” LOL:
http://www.dogtipper.com/blog/2013/03/kendra-wilkinson-shines-spotlight-on-two-adoptable-dogs.html
“Two adoptable dogs” eh? Well, not so much with Stephens. Here’s another article from last year where Wilkinson pays tribute to her dear departed corgi, Raskal (Stephen’ pit bulls were rather “rascally,” no?):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3728522/Goodbye-loyal-friend-Kendra-Wilkinson-posts-heartbroken-tribute-beloved-dog-Raskal-dies.html
Hmmm… this shot seems like it could be a bit of foreshadowing for the Stephens attack (with an added undercurrent of beastiality):
This headline on the Stephens story seems to hint at beastiality as well:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5186531/Virginia-woman-mauled-death-pit-bulls.html
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Terran, you have a particular knack for connecting “apparently” disparate people/events.
Stephens confederate flag photo also has her throwing up the devil horns. The “sim” resemblance to Wilkinson is undeniable. Stephens dogs “slept in her bed at night and would kill you with kisses.” The pic you provided has a definite porn vibe with Wilkinson assuming the doggy-style position.
On youtube “Kendra Wilkinson accuses Hank Baskett of Transexual Fetish.” Is this what passes for entertainment these days? One hard-hitting Youtube commenter remarked:
I really think this all might of been faked it made there show very interesting to watch and the whole” I tell you in time ” thing was to help drag it out for marriage boot camp or other possible reality TV opportunities
it would not of been interesting if he “cheated. ” with a chic ! They so paid the transgender girl/guy , pay attention to the interviews ! Fake AF ! Sorry but that’s the way I see it if this shit was real they would not be on camera !
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Thats some hard troof bruh! You woke AF!!
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Kevin, I’ve been looking more into this today and there’s SO much more. This is a goldmine! There’s an underlying beastiality theme running through the stories of all three characters: Stephens, Wilkinson and Treadwell. For instance, this memorable scene from Grizzly Man has a definite fetishistic, sexual tone to it:
I’ll get more into the beastiality theme in another comment but here are a few more interesting connections I found to Grizzly Man and Wilkinson. First, check out Stephens’ favorite movie on her FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/bethany.stephens.5661
Winnie the Pooh, lol. In fact, if you log in and look at her “About” page, you’ll see she also lists the movie Ted which features a talking bear:
And now for a primo connection between Stephens and Wilkinson (aside from their obvious physical resemblance):
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/kendra-wilkinson-husband-philadelphia-eagles-wide-receiver-hank-baskett-loses-job-michael-vick-article-1.196263
And you mentioned her husband’s transsexual tryst. Well, get a load of the headline here (ignore the video that loads at the top and scroll down):
Swirl Problems: Kendra Wilkinson Asks DIRTY DOG Hubby Hank Baskett Point Blank “Did You Go There To Have Sex With A Transsexual?”
https://bossip.com/1077750/swirl-problems-kendra-wilkinson-asks-dirty-dog-hubby-hank-baskett-point-blank-did-you-go-there-to-have-sex-with-a-transsexual-video/
And check out this story posted just 5 hours ago (scroll down to the Twitter response by “Ruben” with the pit bull’s flapping lips from the day before the Stephens story broke):
http://popculture.com/2017/12/17/kendra-wilkinson-lip-filler-treatment-social-media-reactions/
Wilkinson is definitely a valuable citizen in Psyop-land:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/kendra-wilkinson-wants-you-to-know-shes-a-space-alien
Nice quote revealing some truth with a dash of misdirection:
Wilkinson has previously said that she supports Donald Trump, but that she’s “more of a conspiracy theorist.” When I ask her about her endorsement, Wilkinson is quick to explain that she’s “not in the political world at all—I am anti-politics.” She insists, “I’m not Republican, I’m not Democrat, I’m not liberal. I’m a fucking hippie, right? I’m a conspiracy theorist too, at the end of the day. I think it’s all bullshit. Everything’s made just for money, for talk—talk creates money, talk creates media, media creates money, it’s all money! And I don’t believe in any of it! I don’t believe any of it. I believe in aliens, and I’m happy in my own world. I believe aliens…I’m an alien. I’m RH negative and I’m an alien so I don’t need to really be on earth right now. I’d rather not. I’d rather have my people come and take me away onto our planet.”
Anyway, I’ll add more later. What I’m most struck by about all of this is how the subject of Grizzly Man happened to come about on this blog at this specific time. I see in Mark’s original post, he said the Matthew Shepard story got him thinking about Treadwell. But take a look at the post by Steve immediately preceding that one:
https://pieceofmindful.com/2017/12/03/more-red-meat-for-america/
Featuring the “Trumpy Bear!” A storm is coming, indeed!
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Terran. All of these links, pics, and vids is why I suggested that you should get off of Google-Plus and start your own blog/website. You’ve almost compiled an entire article in this comment section alone. It would be fascinating. Thanks for sharing. Although, perhaps we should be careful not to let our enthusiasm hijack Mark’s article. (Just my feeling. I don’t speak for him of course).
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I thought the same thing … not that there is any problem being hijacked … often the comment section is more interesting than the original article. But I love to see people dive into this stuff … I try to suggest to people that there is no magic, just practice and hard work. So if Terran wants to use this forum to put some of his work on display, go for it.
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Thanks, guys. You have inspired me to finally get my WP blog up and running. My first post includes all my comments from this post plus some new developments in the Bethany Stephens story. I think my screen name should now link to my blog but here’s a link to the post if it doesn’t:
https://beyondterranrealms.wordpress.com/2017/12/20/grizzly-man-other-humans-consumed-by-beasts/
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Having watched a half hour’s worth of the Grizzly Man film- visuals only- I have these suspicions: Treadwell is often right up front on screen and the bears far in the background. Feet are more difficult to anchor in a composite shot so we don’t always see the ground he is crouching on. Also, if the image below loads, you will see there is a growth of weeds right around him and they could help mask the “join” so to speak of the foreground, possibly shot in the same meadow, and the background where the bears are, possibly at a different time when the professionals who know bears could take the simple footage.
Additionally, Treadwell spends time without bears in the shot and so could also be staged far from danger. As well, those bears could have green screens behind them and they are actually trained bears under human control. They could also be drugged, and very possibly could be stunt men in convincing costumes. See the Jan Troell film, Flight of the Eagle for some of the best polar bear costumed stunt men ever. Yes, Virginia, they do that in nature films. I’m certain many of the shots in the Sigourney Weaver film, Gorillas in the Mist, about gorilla gal Diane Fossey featured “stunt” gorillas.
Finally, the foxes remind me of the magnificently bizarre ending of Herzog’s masterpiece, Aguirre, The Wrath of God, wherein dozens of monkeys descend on the raft armada of Kinski the Mad as a precedent for Herzog’s willingness to wrangle animals for dramatic effect.
On points I’d say this film is a fraud. Not that I’m upset. As I said before, I like Herzog’s films but I don’t believe a word out of that man’s maw. Fellini was the same way, apparently- a pathological liar. But I forgive him, too. I just want to see a good show. I certainly never look to movies for guidance or insight on ANYTHING!
https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/grizzly_man.jpg?quality=65&strip=all
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I could not get my advertising friend (who is my stepson) to look at those scenes this weekend. I am going to rent the movie again myself and take another look, but at this point I am taking your opinion on this along with XE’s that this movie is a work of fraud. The epic scene of two grizzlies fighting, and then Treadwell appearing on the scuffed ground, should be a good place to look for discrepancies.
What I am thinking is that Treadwell was bought into it in 2003 and was asked to return to Kodiak for an additional week under the pretense of locating a sow. That was done to set the stage for the death. They then reverse engineered the movie. What pisses me off is that the Medical Examiner for the State of Alaska participated. Or did he.
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Mark: Looks like one of my comments from a couple days ago is still awaiting moderation. It’s in the Bethany Stephens thread above under Kevin Starr’s last comment. There were lots of links, sorry. One of the links was to a previous post here at POM, so that might have actually embedded the entire post which is annoying thing I think I’ve see happen before. If it does that, you can just delete that URL.
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It is up now.
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Hey Mark……..Couple of thoughts on the Grizzly film. When I first went to Jellystone in the 60’s, The evening entertainment was the bear dump. Very beautiful animals as I remember even though it was a half century ago. Some people were feeding them marsh mellows even as they were told not to. They were quite tame though. But the eating of the people doesn’t quite fit in with my knowledge of them. As I recall. they ( when food is abundant ) , don’t actually eat the salmon. They just strip off the skin and go and get another one.It seems their instinct for fat grubbing makes them rather picky as to what they eat. Actually makes sense in a way, so the eating of the people doesn’t quite fit the behavioral patterns to my ( limited ) knowledge. Not sure if this is important. Feliz Navidad.
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I agree – I had the same Yellowstone experience. Habituation was the problem. Much better that animals fear people to avoid encounters. People we met from Alaska last summer told us the black bears are a bigger problem, and I speculate that they are on the losing end of the food chain to browns and so have to be more aggressive to survive. When a black bear kills, it eats and they are a danger to humans, I was told.
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Yup. and one thing else I forgot. They usually drag the carcass off into the woods and cover it with dirt and branches. So maybe they didn’t need the watch after all. Or maybe they just don’t like cheap Chinese watches.
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Nice Terran and congrats. Will check it out and link to your research when I see fit (like I do already to POM, MM, Josh and Vexman).
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Thanks, Gaia. I think I’ll be reposting some of my investigations from G+ in the new format. I’ve changed my presentation approach a lot over the past couple of years, so hopefully these new posts will be more streamlined and coherent, in addition to the more readable format!
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Looking forward to it Terran. Trying to follow your incredible work.
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The subject of Treadwell/Dexter and his post-mortem success seem very much like a planned script where the role was given Dexter, including his destination for six foot under, quite early. The effeminate traits of Treadwell and his very manly GF also hint at more complex scenarios than is discussed here. The Grizzly ‘man’ and his Jane might like Tarzan or Adam and Eve actually be EGI.
Bear – Ra Be (phonetically ‘Ra Bee’)
When it comes to acting – it should be noted that puppeteers have incarnated bears for the longest time and that many of the mediated “Trophy Kills” of giant bears on iKodak island are in fact fake. Not that bears necessarily all are wolves in sheep clothing – but the giant specimens that often figure as gruesome “grisly’ figures mostly are (Ursus arctos horribilis). The biggest brown bear killed in recent history was an 11 foot specimen killed by a 9 year old.
Shooting Teddybears
http://allunreal.com/2018/01/shooting-teddybears/
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I think the logical explanation for the unusual size of the brown bear is the unusual abundance of the food source. They can feed on salmon at leisure for months out of the year, and then sleep it off. It is like you and I having a free Pizza Hut next door that shuts down in the winter, so we learn to just sleep.
So please, no puppets, none of that nonsense. The animals are real. Their threat to humans is minimal, as we are not a food source, and do not threaten theirs, so they treat us with detached disdain, as Treadwell might have discovered.
What I suspect is this: Treadwell, an actor, was furnished high quality equipment to film the animals, and together with crew was able to get some quality footage. That was supplemented with genuine wildlife footage by experts, and the two were combined to make the Treadwell film archive. They had the makings of a good movie, but like a comic with no punchline, they needed something to grab, and Treadwell getting eaten by bears was seen as the best way. So they invented the scenario where he and a girlfriend decided to spend an additional week, recruited the pilot and the fake girlfriend and an actor who played the role of state medical officer (the hardest part for me to grasp – he faked his death after!), but the death scenes … how to do that? Mere power of suggestion. Too gruesome. We cannot handle the truth. And, by grace of movie maker magic, when Treadwell was killed, the camera was off but a microphone was on.
So spare me all the puppetry, please. This was just a straight-up con job.
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I should add here, I had forgotten this, I called Alaska to satisfy myself that the state medical officer was a real person, and never heard back. The gal I initially talked to said that the list of officials who headed that agency was a short one as it was only founded in 1990 or so, so I should call back and leave a request for information. I did. I [I remember now …I wrote to them. No answer.] And forgot about it until now. No answer. The information was not available online.
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Bears are definitely real. My dad set up a retreat for mistreated bears from the Balkans back in Holland.
However what I saw is that bears are incredibly stupid. Much dumber than other big carnivore mammals as felines or wolves. That may be one of the evolutionary causes for the hibernation (too dumb to survive) and why they are not social animals (solitary). That combination, tigers are also solitary but not stupid.
The EGI trail is a red herring of course. Enough to analyze outside of that extreme obsession…
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So, Gaia. You’ve been participating in this thread since mid-December, but only now felt compelled to reveal “My dad set up a retreat for mistreated bears from the Balkans back in Holland?”
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Eh yes, why?
It is a park started in a zoo in Holland. He took the initiative for it. Nothing secret, it’s there, you can visit.
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italics?
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