The Apollo hoax



I often discover, and I know this is common, that problems and riddles are revealed to me as I write as if my fingers on the keyboard operate as independent minds. The very fact that I tackle a problem and try to understand it is in itself a revealing exercise.

I am hoping to hell that happens with this effort. Dave McGowan, in my view a spook doing limited hangouts (fake death 11/22/2015), wrote (or merely published) a fourteen-part series called Wagging the Moondoggie about the moon landing hoax. Just as with the Miles Mathis Group, though shady and having concealed motives (“Center for an Informed America”  – CIA … really?),  though we cannot know the underlying intent, it is worth reading. It is well written, and entertaining too.

We know that the moon landings were a hoax.

Laypeople don’t examine the claims, they just go with expert consensus. Nor do they examine how that consensus is arrived at.”

Thus spaketh a commenter recently. If you think the moon landings were real, go away. Up above it says that this blog now has 1,000 followers. Make it 999. I am not going to go through the evidence, as it is everywhere except on YouTube, which is now reduced to “debunking” claims that it was fake. Treat yourself. Trust yourself.

I am ever-so-cautiously looking into EU, or electric universe, knowing that the Mathis Group suggests it is but another project. I was blown away by this piece by that group, couched as it is in antisemitism, unreliable genealogy, and mind-boggling egotism. But before that I was already skeptical of Wal Thornhill and David Talbott, as neither of them question the authenticity of the moon landings. I thought that this might be because to deny might be to sink their entire effort, so best to go along. But perhaps they are too a project, as MMG asserts. I do not know.

Here is why I know the moon landings were fake: Everything worked first time through. The technology was not battle tested, and the lunar lander had never been tried before. Yet they were able to fly 243,000 miles, dispatch the lander, land and survive the temperatures and radiation, take off again (!), and return to planet Earth. Have you ever remodeled a bathroom or installed a new kitchen faucet? Things go wrong. We cannot anticipate which things. But not with the moon landings. The sheer effrontery of not having near enough fuel, making it through the radiation that is all over space (not just in the Van Allen Belt), using Playtex rubber suits and regular film and cameras … laypeople do not examine claims of experts. That’s all it is.

I suspect that from a mechanical standpoint they might be able to launch a rocket that got close to the moon (without landing), and that rocks from Antarctica might really be from that source. (They are visible atop freshly fallen snow and by reverse logic can be theorized to be from the moon.) There would be no point or need to bring the rocket back, as all the information gained would be sent back by radio transmissions.  But to put humans aboard a spacecraft and fly them there and back? No way.  It makes no sense. Not then, now now.

“Mankind cannot venture beyond Earth orbit until we can find a way to overcome deadly space radiation.” (Dan Goldin, NASA Administrator 1992-2001, to BBC journalist Sheena McDonald, 1994)

I don’t know what to make of that quote other than that basketball player Steph Curry recently repeated it, and for that was lambasted by Rush Limbaugh, an expert whom laypeople trust. The quote was attributed to Goldin by McDonald, but it is only word of mouth. Nonetheless, the moon landings being a hoax is well understood behind the closed doors of NASA and other higher circles, never broached publicly.

So if you are here at this website, we share this insider knowledge, and the question I want to address is not that is was or was not a hoax, but rather … why? Why go to such trouble? Here are some of the prevailing theories:

  1. The Soviets were cleaning our clocks in the space race, and the U.S. needed to show superiority.
  2. To fulfill JFK’s words. He was, after all, a fallen hero.
  3. Theft, pure and simple, of taxpayer money.
  4. It was a way of keeping the economy afloat, as is all military spending, committing vast resources to empty projects.
  5. It was a diversionary tactic, and the real purpose of Apollo was space-based weaponry (Star Wars).
  6. It was a diversionary tactic, and the real purpose of Apollo was development of new technology which is to this day kept secret (The Mathis Group).
  7. It was, like the OJ Simpson affair, just a way of entertaining the public, keeping us occupied and out of the hair of TPTB.

Is the answer in that list? Is it one or several? Is it something else entirely? I am sitting here writing this and not sure that this piece will ever see the light of day. We can reasonably assert that the JFK hoax and 9/11 were TBMC, trauma-based mind control. But this is something on the other side of that coin, a mind-blowing super-fantastic achievement, a lifting of the human spirit. This is something quite different.

So, one-by-one:

The Soviets were cleaning our clocks in the space race, and the U.S. needed to show superiority: I listed this first because it is the easiest to set aside. The “Cold War” was a distraction, not real. The world needs heroes and villains, and the USSR supplied the villains for decades, knowingly on their end and understood as well by our leadership. The Soviets, just like the Americans, knew that moon landings were an impossible feat, and also knew in 1969 that they were faked. There were no secrets at the upper reaches of power. Just a lot of winking.

To fulfill JFK’s words. He was, after all, a fallen hero: I have examined the video above closely, looking at both LBJ’s, JFK’s and House Speaker Sam Rayburn’s body language. JFK’s is impeccable, reading his lines with confidence, but mostly looking down the entire time (before the age of teleprompters). Rayburn’s eyes dart all about as JFK speaks. At the moment that JFK announces the plan to put a man on the moon, LBJ’s eyes, before solidly affixed left and downward, dart right. (The video shifts to a new camera (or is a retake) at 1:27, showing all three men.) According to the rules of body language, speculative of course, looking right is a sign of accessing the imagination, or lying.

JFK was telling a whopper that day. Since we know from work here by Tyrone McCloskey and from the Mathis Group, work well done, that the JFK assassination was an elaborate hoax, I think it safe to speculate that JFK knew in 1961 what was going to happen in 1963. He knew that in 1969 he would be the fallen hero to whom the moon landings would be dedicated. He might have watched the TV show from either his Greek island or aboard the Onassis ocean liner or in Hyannis Port or Brazil, who knows. His scripted speech that day shows how far in advance these projects are planned. That, by itself, is grounding for me … I stand in awe.

Theft, pure and simple, of taxpayer money: There is a thing known as the GAO, or General Accountability Office, which is the auditing arm of the government. I have become so jaded over time that I automatically assume that what we see before us is a sham, and that taxpayer dollars can appear and disappear with ease. But that is not so – at least not to the thousands of men and women who audit government expenditures. As a CPA over the years I had to fulfill continuing education requirements, and so took courses in various aspects of the second oldest profession. One of those courses was auditing of grants made from taxpayer funds. I was impressed with the diligence, that each grant made indeed had to undergo audit and funds had to be used for the stated purpose. This applied to small and large grants alike.


So I don’t imagine that powerful agencies, even one like NASA, can just willy-nilly defraud the government. Above is a video from 2016 that is still available on YouTube, making it suspicious. Nonetheless, it shows a means by which the government can indeed be defrauded. The so-called “moon buggy” was nothing more than a Willys Jeep. Imagine the millions of dollars that went into the moon buggy program, and this is all that came out of it. Where did the rest of the money go?

So, theft, pure and simple, of taxpayer money is indeed a strong candidate for the Apollo hoax.

It was a way of keeping the economy afloat, as is all military spending, committing vast resources to empty projects: If it were just a moon buggy, but think now of Stealth bombers and nuclear submarines, all of the hardware of the military.  Much of the R&D behind it was centered in California, part of the reason that area became so wealthy.  The military knows its role, which is why we have military bases scattered all over the country, and why the building of a Saturn rocket was also scattered over all the states.

The problem with this aspect of the moon hoax is that they were already doing all of this via the military, and did not need NASA to kick in as well. So I regard this as a reason for the hoax, but only a minor one, almost an afterthought. Some other game was afoot.

It was a diversionary tactic, and the real purpose of Apollo was space-based weaponry (Star Wars): Something I have long suspected is that ongoing research and development is a fait accompli when the public learns about it, so that back in the 1980s when the Reagan Administration was pushing its Star Wars program, it was already done. The idea was to build a military defense system that was, in reality, a system for aggression anywhere on the globe at any time.

But if it was already done by the 1980s (admittedly speculation), when did it get done? This is where suspicion that Apollo was a diversion from the real purpose of the space program, to launch space-based weaponry. If that were the case then they really were putting large rockets in low-earth orbit, possibly even manned, and using them to put weapons up there. The weapons would be in that place on the tip of the Saturn that was said to hold the astronauts. What a great scam!

The problem with this is something Nixon once called the “madman” theory. It is said he wanted leaders of other countries to fear him as irrational and capable of flying off the handle, having to be managed by the people around him. The problem with this theory is that it is well-understood by powerful people everywhere that the president has little, if any, real power. So Nixon might be a madman, but he was a harmless one. It could be, however, that the whole Star Wars affair was just a false front, and that nothing was going on behind the scenes. The leaders of the US merely wanted other countries to fear our mighty weapons systems.

How would I know? It could be that many people in government, including the GAO, knew that Apollo was a hoax, and knew its real purpose, and so stayed silent. However, I do think this path of logic might be productive, that the real purpose of Apollo was unstated and known to be a hoax by all in power, sworn to this day to secrecy. We are never to be told its real purpose.

It was a diversionary tactic, and the real purpose of Apollo was development of new technology which is to this day kept secret (The Mathis Group): Maybe some reader can link us to the paper by MMG that stated that the real purpose of Apollo, or perhaps Manhattan, was development of secret technology,  now in use to transport billionaires around the globe.  The MM “group” tipped its hand with this one, as the person I met in Taos was not a world traveler. How would he know then that famous and powerful people are never seen aboard commercial airlines?

I admit it is intriguing, but I am more likely to suspect that the rich and powerful use private jets and air strips rather than new technology (flying saucers?). They don’t talk about it because they don’t want us to know. Imagine that Jerry Seinfeld and Steven Spielberg are in New York City and need to go to Los Angeles. They are driven or taken by helicopter to a private building at a local airport and fly on a private jet, complete with a wait staff. That’s why we don’t see them on airliners.

The implication of the group’s assertion was that new technology allowed our billionaires to be whisked anywhere in the world rapidly and with very little discomfort. Think flying saucers. I do not think it flies.

It was, like the OJ Simpson affair, just a way of entertaining the public, keeping us occupied and out of the hair of TPTB: Think back to the OJ affair. Have you ever wondered why they went to such trouble to put on such a spectacle? They had a script, a large cast of characters, a fake public trial – it was as if they had nothing better to do.

Somewhere someone wrote a list of other, more important, things that were going on during that time and from which we were distracted. However, have you been to WalMart? COSTCO? Have you seen videos of doors opening on Black Friday? Have you watched TV? Distract us from what? Our lives are already 98% distraction. To throw OJ into the mix was overkill.

So this reason for the Apollo hoax, more than all the others, can be easily tossed. It may well have been done as a means of hiding other government programs that were kept secret. It may well be that Americans in 1969 were much smarter and more alert than now, but to run Apollo only for that reason makes no sense.

That is my take on Apollo. I invite readers to add their own speculations, as mine are probably incomplete. I think, however, that it was a combination of things including theft of taxpayer money, secret technology and economic stimulation. It was planned well in advance, at least as far back as the JFK speech in 1961.

Unlike other fake events, this one lifted our spirits and made us believe in ourselves. That part is a puzzler.

43 thoughts on “The Apollo hoax

  1. …Sputnik… @ :08
    …the impact.. @:11
    …which road?… @:20

    God forbid, not the communist/Russian road. Our great enemy: Communism. It never ends.
    Just more full spectrum dominance if we are to believe what we read in The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters by Frances Stonor Saunders. MM, Inc. cites this book fondly ad nauseam, which, as they say: “raises a (belated) red flag.” This hardly reassures and reinforces our conditioned notions of post-WWII military/intelligence programs. Heroin, Agent Orange, offshore oil, etc. were not in the headlines, but made a few lucky ducks billions during economic “boom” we call the Vietnam War.


  2. Let me step even further back and list WWII as the key major distraction of the 20th century, albeit with more public interface than the NASA schemes WWII whelped a generation later.
    One of the main reasons for WWII was to force technological innovation within the context of keeping ahead of the Nazzis and their UFO-ish technologies; specifically, development of the A Bomb.
    Distractions that large can’t be kept up forever and the Cold War was a useful down shift which kept the trope of a race for innovation going at tax payer’s expense.
    The moon shots were a natural outgrowth of Foo Fighters and the like, similar to automatic transmission surely leading to flying cars within a generation hence. Innovation begets innovation in a meritocracy, you see.
    A man on the moon was a classic example of fiction first, (pseudo) scientific “fact” second. Méliès to von Braun happens once the concept, however idiotic, seeps into the subconscious.
    Like the concept of Heaven, people will believe anything that transcends physical limitation, specifically death. Getting off a planet we are repeatedly told is dying and will one day be subjected to final judgement is one such transcendent dream. Let’s go to Mars while we’re at it. Sure, that’s a logical follow up. Kubrick’s light show and space babies? You bet, put me down for alien/human DNA mix n’ match. The union of the human and divine is as old as the hills (Leda and the Swan, ie)
    If the emotions are properly prepared, the most outlandish nonsense can be swallowed whole by a relived populace. Soviet rockets or our moon rockets? Which is the better choice? Which gives you warm fuzzies in the face of final judgement (albeit from godless commies, ironically)
    These tropes rely heavily on a perceived conflict. Soon enough, a critical mass will be reached regarding fictitious characters like Hitler and Stalin, et al, and the process of creating opposition to advance agendas antithetical to the best interests of the public will be apparent to enough to force the hand of the elite creeps.
    What follows from there is, as a stymied theologian might concede, a mystery.


    1. With the SpaceX stuff they have lost their gravitas, so to speak, the wild cheering for a successful “project.” It all seems juvenile compared to “mission control” in the Apollo days. The makeup of the population has changed, it seems.


      1. “The makeup of the population has changed, it seems.”

        It’s not just the makeup of the normie U.S. population that has changed, but the makeup of the PTB controllers that have changed as well I believe.

        Who exactly are the PTB controllers today (a rhetorical question)?, children of previous generations, who are human and not infallible. They will make mistakes, be sloppy, be too greedy – and throw in a dose of psychological disorders, and unmask themselves, maybe. I look all around me and see all of this crazy mess going on.


  3. Good analysis. The flight of that weed hopper jalopy built by the Wright Brothers in December 1903 and the first human lunar landing (Apollo 11) in July 1969. Quite a leap in ’66’ years. Science fiction was rife w/space topics for decades grooming the public. & speaking of MMG, those initials ‘M’ ‘M’ (13-13) along with home base TAOS set my blinkers off. Yep, good stuff AND diversions galore.


  4. My conclusion for what it’s worth is that the whole affair was theft from the taxpayer, pure and simple. This is what they do. These grand projects that nobody particularly gains from but which cost the taxpayer dearly. They might throw a few useless discoveries our way to give the project some semblance of validity but the bottom line is, they’re ALL scams. Healthcare, the EU, Charities, Foundations, Military Defence, Space Projects, Research , Terrorism Defence …………………they’re all bottomless money pits with very little return to the taxpayer. And it’s easy. You just make sure that the right people are awarded the mostly non existent contracts and the right people are promoted who have authority over insider information . Nobody really questions the obscene waste of money or the reasons for the endless vanity projects. . This is deceitful theft of revenue that could and should be put aside to enhance the taxpayers’ daily lives. It’s THEIR money after all. What does an homeless person care about Man landing on the Moon? How exactly does it improve anyone’s quality of Life ?
    My dad always used to say, ” Where the money flows, look at the nose.” I’m not sure what he meant by that.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Anna,

      “Sovereign dollars are the government’s IOU which we can return to the government in payment for our taxes. When taxes are paid, the IOU is taken off the books. If the government needs to spend, it creates new money. Taxes serve no funding purpose for sovereign governments.” From an article I posted around tax-time last year, as I recall. I cannot find it so no link. My apologies.


      1. I was about to suggest this too, that those in control of our currency do nt need to engage in theft. But the Apollo program did involve tremendous economc activity and R&D … just as with war, necessity spurs invention.


      2. Regardless though, the sheeple are being ripped-off by the system for nothing. Taxes are just way they screw you over, even if they pay for nothing.

        And as for reasons why they faked the Apollo program, I believe that some of the reasons are convenience and cost-effectiveness: it’s easier and cheaper to make a lunar mission into space in a large Hollywood set on earth than to stage a real one miles away from earth. Plus, it’s less dangerous.

        Not to mention the fact that your average human is a gullible moron who’ll fall for any garbage that’s propagated for their consumption so long as it comes from the approved “experts” that abides by mainstream convention or from their TV set, so anything goes, including a phony moon landing show that they paid for (😆😆😆). Your layperson on the street is none the wiser.


  5. If war is a constant, so too is military R&D. Apollo was the foundation for “Star Wars.”
    Intelligence satellites, “weather satellites” and telecommunications satellites all keep us under the Giant Thumb. It’s hard to imagine what didn’t develop from “military spending.” If Social Security was first calibrated to pay out benefits at 65, it’s no accident that 65 was the average lifespan at the time. Healthcare as we know it is geared more toward managed a lifetime of illness rather than wellness. They give you the compromised immune system and keep pumping you full of chemicals, mold, yeast and viruses, keeping you alive (not thriving) just long enough for you to pay off your “debt to society.” A racket for sure.


    1. Next up on my docket is PSA. I thought AIDS and ZIKA were corrupt, but they look like a grade school picnic compared to the carnage that results of measuring prostate specific antigen. We are leaving on a trip a week from tomorrow, so if you got stuff in the hopper let it go this week and I will let the PSA piece go next Sunday.

      Since we are of similar age I will send you the book by Richard D. Ablin, the Great Prostate Hoax, if you are interested. He was the guy who discovered PSA in 1970 and has campaigned against its use in population-wide testing since. There is a high probability that you and I have prostate cancer this moment, but that our immune systems will contain it. It is best not to test for it, as if they find it they feel they have to remove it, and our lives as men are over. Anyway, if it is aggressive, we’re cooked. Then we undergo radiation or chemotherapy, and die by assisted suicide, as I think of those treatments for aggressive cancer. (Since 2012 they are told not to test men over age 50, but my PA has tested me every year, this year alarmed that it was up, having me come back six months later for a retest, which was normal. Had I read the book I would have refused permisison to even do a PSA. I am suspicious that prostatectomy killed my brother.)

      I was listening to a podcast today about PSA and they talked about future diagnoses as the PSA test is so worthless. The guy said there was stuff in development, mentioning CRISPR. Yikes!

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Yes, send it when time permits. I had radium treatments as a kid, now those patients are dropping like flies. After working years are over we are on our own, hunted like vermin by those holding our contracts. Nothing personal, it’s “strictly business.”


  6. I recently watched “Man on the Moon” about comedian/ minor hoaxer Andy Kaufman… Was struck by the lyrics of the theme song, in conjunction with the whole movie being about fooling a gullible public. Partial excerpt:

    Moses went walking with the staff of wood (yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah)
    Newton got beaned by the apple good (yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah)
    Egypt was troubled by the horrible asp (yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah)
    Mister Charles Darwin had the gall to ask (yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah)

    Now, Andy did you hear about this one?
    Tell me, are you locked in the punch?
    Hey, Andy are you goofing on Elvis?
    Hey baby, are you having fun?

    If you believed they put a man on the moon, man on the moon
    If you believe there’s nothing up his sleeve, then nothing is cool

    Here’s a little agit for the never-believer (yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah)
    Here’s a little ghost for the offering (yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah)
    Here’s a truck stop instead of Saint Peter’s (yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah)
    Mister Andy Kaufman’s gone wrestling (yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah)


    Agit? Like agit prop?? Never-believer.. Like.. a conspiracist? Ghost as in spook? I don’t know but it’s very suggestive sounding imo.


    1. I read about that at one time, a brother or someone, said Andy was just a guy who did not want to be famous and so opted out. Still alive and well no doubt. Great idea on that song, those lyrics can be mined … Newton, Darwin? Kaufman did not have much in the way of talent but his quirky act caught on briefly, maybe like John Belushi. I think they possibly just use them, realize they are shooting stars, and move them aside for new ones.


  7. I think, it is simply another part of the fear industry. To make people believe in the nuclear threat, they needed intercontinental rockets (which don’t exists IMO) and to make people believe in the intercontinental rockets they first invented interplanetary rockets used to fly to the moon. After the Apollo hoax everybody was convinced that flying a bomb over the ocean was a simple thing. Without that possibility the nuclear threat wouldn’t work. It was the image of a starting rocket carrying a nuclear bomb which cannot be stopped anymore that did the trick back then. That’s why they needed the space competition between the Russians and the Americans. Even the cold war wouldn’t work for such a long time. There is no need to “steal” the taxpayers money because this money is what they first give to the taxpayer to make him work everyday. The trick is to make the taxpayer believe he needs the money to pay for the taxes. In Germany the employer pays the half of the taxes for his employees, the other half pays the employee himself. That way it looks like you pay less taxes and makes you feel better about it because you think, your employer, which is your hated enemy, has to pay the other half.


    1. Interesting! Here in the US we have the employer-pays-half illusion too, but only in one of our two major income tax systems. Here it is done to be able to focus the impact of the tax on working people while excusing the wealthy. It is a blatant punitive tax on those who can afford it least, hidden in plain sight.

      And your ICBM concept reminds me of a story I repeated that raised the ire of a ‘scientist’ I met at the 2016 Miles Mathis conference. His presence was a bit overshadowing, almost as if MM was his employee or charge. I wish I had paid more attention or gotten to know him better, but he was aloof and kind of an asshole. Anyway, in my home state of Montana there were underground intercontinental ballistic missile silos, up in the Great Falls area. In the wake of the end of the Cold War they were dismantled, or more likely just demystified. Then news reporters were allowed inside. The missiles had been removed (yes, I know, more likely never existed), and what was left was ancient technology that could not have guided a missile to a nearby anthill. The individual silos were supposedly under the control of computers, and the computers were run by floppy disks – not the five inch ones that were used on our early PCs, but the huge ones, nine inches or more, that held a few pages of data. I didn’t know what to make of it at the time, but now understand that it meant that they silos were built for show only, and for our benefit and not to deceive the Russians, who were too smart to be duped [an in on the game anyway]. They were constructed with then-existing technology, probably early 1960s, and never modified since they served no real purpose anyway.

      Anyway, when I brought up the nine-inch floppies at that conference, the scientist got his hackles up and defended the technology and stated that the silos were indeed real. Really odd. That was as weird as the discovery of empty silos, that MM was being guided by this freak. His attitude was “I am in charge here,” and he was defending the Cold War illusion with vigor. Who the hell was he? Why was he there?


  8. I often heard, that especially military things often use older technology because this technology is supposedly more secure. On the other side, all modern technology comes supposedly from military and only enters the open market after the military already has newer technology. There is this term “military grade” for the best technology available. This contradicts itself of course. I consider the entire military angle as some sort of a show. The involved persons may still take this totally for real. You don’t go there, go through all this training, etc. to question what you’re doing except you’d have to kill innocents and such. But this never really happens IMO. Soldiers don’t fight for real anymore. They have to work hard, day in, day out, to become “the best of the best SIR” and are only occasionally allowed to have some fun with their tools. If people are being paid they often don’t question what they are being paid for. If you work in a fake facility operating dummy gadgets, as long as the money is o.k. and the gadgets aren’t totally stupid, you’ll do your job and not complain. In the bank business the smartest and best educated people are just sorting numbers, following carefully protocols and never questioning the meaninglessness of their jobs as long as they earn more than others. Been there, done that.


    1. Te only guy I ever knew who as in Vietnam and could talk about what he did was a SeaBee … operating heavy equipment, building things. There might be something to this idea that wars are about manufacturing shifts and population movement. Vietnam was tranformed into a garment center where before it was rural farming, so the population had to be shifted to the cities. Japan … leveled and rebuilt as an industrial economy.

      I wonder if in Syria right now, just speculating, that the younger people are moving north into Europe since the European population is aging and not reproducing enough workers, or people willing to do hard labor.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. you look at it from the wrong perspective, Steve Kelly, the money is not being taken from us, it is being given to us. It makes us go to work everyday. I creates a flow of demand and supply. Without money there won’t be any infrastructure necessary and no infrastructure possible. It is money that made all the progress possible. Just take a look at folks who don’t use money. We still have some wild tribes in some areas in South America and Africa. They keep to live the way we left some thousands years ago. Money is the fuel that feeds our progress. The military does not fight wars anymore. If it ever did. Its sheer existence creates the need for protection and the feeling of insecurity at the same time. It generates all that fear that makes us controllable. Without that fear we would probably never be able to create societies and civilizations. Those things are not bad in itself. Just keep in mind, there is nothing to fear except the fear.


        1. “you look at it from the wrong perspective, Steve Kelly, the money is not being taken from us, it is being given to us.” You may have me confused with someone else. I don’t recall ever having said that.

          That is a strawman you built there, and not your first. I have provided the following link to help avoid this, and other common logical fallacies in the future. Barbara, I will not debate individual points with you because I think you are intelligent enough to know what these devices are used for, and how to use them quite well. Why? I do not know, nor do I care.


          1. Steve, you asked “So where is the money going?”. Didn’t you mean the money being “stolen from the taxpayers”? I’m not building a “strawman” whatever that is. IMO there is no such thing as “next generation” of weapons. No laser can destroy anything at distance. There are no EMP weapons. There are no quantum computers, no artificial intelligence. It’s all fake news. That does not mean, that they are not spending lots of money on absurd things like aircraft carriers. But this money is not being stolen from anybody. Building an aircraft carrier for instance generates lots of work, means lots of jobs and opportunity to give money to the people involved. This money then is being spent in the consumer market. It keeps lots of people busy. And the aircraft carrier simply belongs to the fear industry. Do you really believe that Trump killed Al Badawi recently? That Obama killed Osama? Come on.


          2. I didn’t claim you said that Steve, I asked you that. Quotation marks can be used in different contexts. I used them to emphasize the pun in my second sentence. But you’re bypassing my arguments and ignoring my questions.
            Do you believe, presidents give orders to bomb villages and soldiers follow such orders knowing they will kill many innocents too?
            Because I don’t believe that and then an aircraft carrier makes not much sense as a weapon if it ever makes any sense at all.


          3. This goes way back with me, back to a time when I trusted historians to present accurate information about the past. I knew that most humans were incapable of killing others, but also blindly followed orders in group settings. So the introduction of distance allowed the killing to go on … first by means of fast-moving arrows and then by gunfire, and finally by missiles and aircraft wherein the person inflicting the carnage was so far removed that he did not experience any grief or remorse over events he did not experience or see. I still hold to this concept.

            I think it was General Marshall who analyzed combat in WWII and found that most bullets fired were deliberately directed too high to hit their targets. This makes sense, as soldiers firing weapons can see their targets and would feel grief and remorse. Only in movies do soliders easily kill without emotions. (Perhaps my ex-wife would be able to do so too.)


          4. PS: The whole purpose of basic training can be summarized as creation of killers. Soldiers are taught to adhere to their small groups and defend them against all outsiders, who present a deadly threat. The enemy is demonized so that killing him is justified. Thus the concept of the “Nazi” still used today, a cold heartless killing machine worthy of death. Thus enemy combatants kicking around a soccer ball on Christmas is a grave sin.


          5. that’s what they keep telling us Mark, but I don’t believe it anymore. People no matter how stupid won’t become beasts. Some may sometimes loose control and go mad or “run amok” but never in crowds. Any crowd creates a self control mechanism where there is a leader (alpha) and there are followers and the leader has to decide reasonably for the crowd or will be replaced by another alpha. They suggest that soldiers when given orders will stop thinking and even go into certain death because of their training. That makes no sense to me. We are not stupid animals, we are humans. And they will never make any insane persons into soldiers. And even then, there are not enough maniacs to build an army. And as I mentioned above, the crowd will always automatically control the grumblers. Or there will be no crowd.

            Liked by 1 person

          6. the idea that a (charismatic) leader makes a speech to his followers (soldiers) and convince them to risk their life for a higher purpose works only in movies and books. In reality the purpose of a crowd action must always have direct advantages for the members of the crowd. Or they will not participate. For instance, if there is chaos breaking out on some big live event with thousands of participants and people start to ran away, there always is one who starts everything and others simply decide to follow him hoping to get away. If one starts to throw stones, others will silence him quickly because that is the advantage for the crowd. In demonstrations there are sometimes groups called “black block” or likewise, where a group creates chaos, throws stones, etc. But those are agent provocateurs, payed to do damage. They have this training we are talking about. Even this people won’t kill others on order. And they will stop when to much people get hurt. I’ve seen this myself. Nobody takes pleasure in hurting others. Not even cage fighters.

            Liked by 1 person

    2. “If you work in a fake facility operating dummy gadgets, as long as the money is o.k. and the gadgets aren’t totally stupid, you’ll do your job and not complain”

      Ha, indeed. It sort of seems like all the pseudo work is just to maintain a gradated class system… More about social order than work product. Except for the small percent of actually useful labor.


  9. Not still does not account (MT alert) w h e r e the money truly goes. Just like these ‘fake’ events, the real motive & desired results are speculations.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I am trying to support a case for “it goes everywhere.” Economic bribery, extortion maintains Empire. A better question would be: Where doesn’t it go?

      ““I applaud the organization here for having the forward thinking to put in an institution like this,” said Raytheon vice president and MSU alumnus Wes Kremer. “For us at Raytheon, this is a good move from a partnership perspective.”

      Boeing executive Tom Hunter, MSU President Waded Cruzado, Vice President for Research and Economic Development Renee Reijo Pera, Montana Lt. Gov. Mike Cooney and Kris Merkel, president of local photonics company S2 Corp., also took part in the day’s groundbreaking ceremony.”

      See a pattern?


  10. There was a story in the news just a few days ago about the Chinese landing their own robotic Rover on the far side of the moon. What’s that about? Could TBTB be setting up another space race scam with the PRC replacing the USSR?


  11. Whoa. This ‘fake’ & ‘hoax’ thing is not absolute. There are elite/special forces that do train & program killers at close range. And that programing does fail. It does become harder to maintain w/age (30’s) unless a very high intelligence (Spock mindset) AND inhuman ritualistic trauma is induced very early in life. Someday a paper on Freemasonry & Vatican brotherhoods should be explored. Over at 1313 Mockingbird Lane there is a obvious abscess of in depth of both. Celeb & old,old EU aristocrats are A #1.


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