Where empires go to die. Hard to believe that Obama isn’t aware of the dangers of a sinkhole war, but apparently not.
Here’s an interesting piece from Le Nouvel Observateur, Paris, 15-21 January 1998 – Zbigniew Brzezinski backs up Robert Gates in saying that the root cause of the destabilization of Afghanistan during the 1980’s was not first the Soviets, but the U.S., which lured them there in 1979.
Q: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs [“From the Shadows”], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.
Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?
B: It isn’t quite that. We didn’t push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.
Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn’t believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don’t regret anything today?
B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.
Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?
B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?
Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.
B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn’t a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.
Translated from the French by Bill Blum
Poor Afghanistan – perpetually caught in the Great Game. What is it about its location that lures superpowers there?
Piece of Mindful 
The objective is not stabilizing Afghanistan, or exterminating radical Islam, it’s bringing an end to the U.S. of A. No other nation state presents as formidable an obstacle to global capitalists. The U.S. Constitution must go. The rest will melt like butter. Nothing else makes much sense.
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…
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
…(and Afghanistan)…
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Bob – you’re getting good with poetical references. What are you reading these days?
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Time for coffee, dude? Send me a note (aka email).
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Brzezinski may be giving himself too much credit. According to Steve Coll (who wrote Ghost Wars, a fantastic book on Afghanistan from 1979 to 2001), Brzezinski made no mention at the time of luring the Soviets into any trap and was worried that they’d actually prevail. It was likely just a continuation of the typical attempts by the U.S. to confront Soviets or leftists wherever during the Cold War.
They didn’t see it the first time and they haven’t seen it yet the second time.
This seems like a good time for one of your proclamations on propaganda. Afghanistan has been considered the “good war” by mainstream liberals. To be against that war puts you the same camp as people like Chomsky. Not good. Advocating withdrawal from Iraq has for a while been an acceptable mainstream liberal position, but getting out of Afghanistan remains a fringe position. Why wouldn’t Obama ignore the argument for that position? We’re not supposed to think about it. It explains my opinion about it for the last few years.
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People like Chomsky? Name them. If you mean Chomsky, say Chomsky. Though I read him and like him, I’m not terribly familiar with his position on Afghanistan, other than the crazy idea that we trained the Mujahadeen, equipped them, built their bases (which is why we knew where to fire the rockets in 1998), and when they became Al Qaeda, treated them as if they had arisen from the mountain streams.
Why are we there? I don’t know. Is it because of the official stated reasons? Would be the first time. Is it a sinkhole? I don’t know. That has been the experience in the past. Should we get out? Probably. But whatever the objective was in 2001, it is still the objective in 2009. Foreign policy does not change, one administration to another. Only tactics.
Is Brzezinski credible on this? Seems odd that he talked about it in France but not here. But remember that Gates said the same thing in his book. That’s two people deeply involved who agree. Are they so good that they could lure the Soviets into a trap? Only on TV, I suppose.
A good test would be to ascertain weather or not the U.S> was funneling weapons and deep cover advisers into Afghganistan in July of 1979. That would be strong evidence that Brzezinski is credible.
Your book – Ghost Wars, sounds like a good one. Can I borrow it some time?
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I was just using Chomsky as a shorthand for lefties outside of the mainstream. Someone with whom mainstream liberals don’t want to be associated. It wasn’t meant to disparage him.
My point is maybe narrower than what you’re taking issue with. We absolutely did send covert aid to Afghanistan in July of 1979. We did pull the Soviets into Afghanistan and it did cost them dearly. I’m just saying that for Brzezinski to imply we deliberately led them into a trap is to give our foreign policy too much credit. They saw an attempt to embarrass the Soviets, who were providing minor aid to Afghan communists. In hindsight, the Soviets got into something they couldn’t handle, but we didn’t put them there for that reason.
You’re welcome to borrow it; just drop me an email. It’s long and fairly dense (occasionally it gets a little bogged down in details), but well worth it.
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