Egypt went to the polls this week and elected a new legislative body. That body, of course, has no power. Nor will it ever – get real. A country whose population offers up a 78% unfavorable view of the United States (we did, after all, back their dictator and arm their military for the past thirty years) cannot possibly be allowed a true democratic government. Such a government would be anti-American. Not allowed. The militarily will continue to rule for the foreseeable future, and palliative remedies like meaningless elections will have to suffice.
However, Egyptian democracy in its current form is superior to the American version. After all, Egyptians are mostly aware that the election was for politicians who have no real power. Americans are mostly oblivious to that small detail.
Piece of Mindful 
No surprise that they hate us.
After all we let our women drive cars.
“Repealing a ban on women drivers in Saudi Arabia would result in ‘no more virgins’, the country’s religious council has warned.
A ‘scientific’ report claims relaxing the ban would also see more Saudis – both men and women – turn to homosexuality and pornography.
The startling conclusions were drawn by Muslim scholars at the Majlis al-Ifta’ al-A’ala, Saudi Arabia’s highest religious council, working in conjunction with Kamal Subhi, a former professor at the King Fahd University.”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2068810/Saudis-fear-virgins-people-turn-gay-female-drive-ban-lifted.html#ixzz1fOx8Ncvc
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Very revealing, Swede. Very revealing. The post is about Egypt, and they hate us because we kept a hated dictator in power for 30 years.
You write about Saudi Arabia. In other words …
They all look alike to you.
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No Mark, they hate us because we treat our women as equals.
Those pigs all look the same.
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Your intellecltual devolopment has been stunted by hatred. This explains a lot.
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Interesting Mark, hatred isn’t beheading Jews, keeping girls from schools, murdering Christians and burning their Churches, or hanging gays.
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Nice recital. Now, bring forth your evidence, first hand please, cite some numbers, make some comparisons in data in number of casualties inflicted on each side by the other. Because I know you, Seede. And know you’re not one who is easily fooled by emotions and that you always do your homework and do not just idly link or stuff like that.
A book, preferrably not one written by Dershowitz, would be useful. Try Benny Morris – even though he is an Israel supporter, he does tend to be more objective than most. That is, if you actually read things.
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Here’s a non-hater who’s surfaced after the revolt.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8933537/Aboud-al-Zumour-Islamic-Jihad-mastermind-of-Sadats-murder-comes-in-from-th
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No linky. No matter. You no thinky. You’re not worth much trouble.
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Egypt is a country pretty much run by the Tokarski plan: have the government subsidize everything, expect no productive activity, have money given to you by a wealthy benefactor, and blame the United States when things go wrong.
Socialist enterprises eventually run out of money. You think the proper politics will keep the thing going. I suspect that the underlying economics has something to do with it.
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Nice pull. Egyptians are not in economic revolt, but are in a Wikileaks revolt, set off by the Tunisian affair. They want to get rid of their military overlords, put in place and kept there by US military aid, second only to that to Israel since Camp David.
This is demonstrably true, supported by hard facts on the ground.
What has failed, and put us in the Great Recession, is neoclassical economic theory, and not socialism. This too is supported by, like, you know, everything that is around you if your head is not in a dark place.
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You know a lot about the dark place. Experience, non?
Tunisia has the usual overweening bureaucracy stifling commerce that triggered the self immolater. Egypt had food price rises. The usual dictators were in place, but things are getting more expensive.
Do you really think the average Egyptian cares about Wikileaks or the American military? This is your projection of your need for a deus ex machina: you are comforted by the idea of a metaphorical God directing affairs, even if malign. The idea of broad social forces giving rise to particular results has swooshed on by you.
I suppose neo-classical economics is nothing to brag about, but I’m not impressed by all the socialist success stories.
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Egypt 2011 is virtually a carbon copy of Iran 1979, US-backed fascist thug and popular protests overwhelming him. In Egypt, the US is intent on not allowing popular government but is in a pickle, having to publicly support democratic in the front window while working furiously in the back room to stop it. They are not about to let another country break away as they did Iran.
You know, honestly, you are not well-accustomed to seeing under events, and following American news is no remedy for that. I suggest you try Al Jazeera for balance- that is, their view to contrast with ours. You’re lopsided in outlook.
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Egypt 2011 is virtually a carbon copy of Iran 1979
Too simple.
publicly support democratic in the front window while working furiously in the back room to stop it.
Do you really think some kind of democracy will change the basic economics that will keep Egypt in turmoil? Do you really believe someone in the “back room” knows enough and has enough power to sway events?
you are not well-accustomed to seeing under events
I keep some humility about what I know, but I find your subscription to a “a href=”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state”>deep competent state” a little much.
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Too simple? The Shah was used to replace a Democratic government Iran in 1953 and kept in power by the US until 1979, when he was overthrown by angry anti-American mobs. 26 years. Mabarak was put in power in 1981 and kept in power by US military aid until 2011 when he had to step down in the face of angry mobs. 30 years. You’re right – each a tyrant, each supported by heavy US military aid, each causing deep anti-American sentiments in the population, not because of imagined misdeeds but rather because of actual nasty shit we did to them. I so simple-minded.
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Iran and Egypt are not that particularly anti-American. We’re a convenient target for criticism by those who need to vent. Iran had a secular/sectarian rift and conflicts over Westernization. Egypt is getting poor fast. You are too anxious to cram events into your cranial rut.
How exactly did we keep Mubarak in power? We gave him money so he could subsidize food and keep the populace bribed. Okay. But walking down the street, how was our influence actualized beyond what any oppressive regime does sans US help, e.g. North Korea, Burma, etc? Countries largely run themselves, despite your craving to attribute outside forces.
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We supply the arms and train their military that spies on, tortures, imprisons them – it is a military dictatorship. Egypt is too much a threat to Israel to be allowed to be free.. 78% of the Egyptian population holds an unfoavaorable opinion of the US.
Iran was a free democratic country in 1953 when we overthrew their government and installed a military dictatorship. We backed Saddam Hussein as he invaded them in 1980. They too have an ufavorable opinion of the US, and they know why.
Good grief, Fred, again, you are low-information and simply making things up. Your sources of information are narrow-channeled.
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We supply the arms and train their military that spies on, tortures, imprisons them
You can’t corrupt the willing. Both the Shah and Mubarak had significant political power at home.
Your narrative requires a kind of helplessness on the other side. Does it take 30 years for a population to finally realize the wrong people are in power? What then changes? There is so much more going on here, I wonder who is narrow-channeled.
Let’s flip this a bit: six portly Iranian Revolutionary Guards decide to install a friendly government in America, so they give money, arms, and training to the Tea Party, and they elect Michelle Bachmann as president. Will the public at large accept this? For 30 years? How helpless are we against manipulation? How helpless is any population against rank manipulation?
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You’re right, of course. I don’t know how the Romans, the Spanish, Dutch, Japanese, French, Brits, Ottomans ever pulled this shit off. As you so well demonstrate, it cannot be done.
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I realize that “he who has the gold makes the rules” to a large extent, but I get tired of your constant victim-oppressor narrative. Egypt and Iran have to look in the mirror to see from whence their problems come.
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That’s looney! If the US simply leaves them alone, they are left with normal problems and will do just fine. Their biggest problem is the US, more specifically, US foreign policy, which will not let them be free countries.
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Practicing linking makes perfect
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Huh? You simply don’t get power, do you? It’s not deep or mysterious. It is simply silent. Power does not make noise. It doesn’t have to.
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I find the attribution of power to silent, behind-the-scene actors to be your way of simplifying the situation. I termed this the competent deep state.
Power also arises from the concerted action of many smaller actors. Germany is gaining political power partly to the work-a-day efforts of its population. Islam is gaining political power partly from the resolve of the faithful.
I suspect you embrace the concentration of power view for the hope of rapid change from the action of a few.
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There’s nothing new under the sun. The people who hold real power are generally not salable to the public, lacking good looks or charisma, and so hire people to front for them. Power has always been silent. Maybe 400 families in this country, similar in every capitalist country.
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I’m sure the 400 wealthiest swing their share of power, but that is too reductionist.
The Midwestern meth-head and the illiterate Mexican peasant living in California are not totally devoid of political power. Get enough of these together, and things change.
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You argue form a position of ignorance, merely positing this or that without any real knowledge, as if your gut has the truth. And again, you do not understand power. Read Machiavelli. He’s still the go-to guy on how it works.
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You focus on political power. There is also economic power, military power, demographic power, and intellectual power; and all intertwine.
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Agreed, but how on earth does that undermine my argument?
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This predates Iran.
Egypt is behaving like so many former British colonies. Compared to India, Egypt has suffered as a direct result of its proximity to Israel, another British stroke of genius. Unlike India, its independence was repeatedly crushed by French, British, Israeli, U.S., and ultimately U.N. military forces. The Egyptian army first seized power in 1952. Foreign military intervention was centered around the Suez Canal (built 1869) and Aswan Dam (before completion Brits and U.S. withdrew funds in 1956). All Western troops were run out in 1957; Aswan was finished by Soviets. Remember the Soviets, the Cold War, Nixon? And, gee whiz, this just scratches the surface. Pissed? You bet they hold a teeny grudge, and it’s not about women, or “socialism.” It’s bone-crushing-starve-the-locals imperialism.
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Oh, I almost forgot, Syria and Egypt formed the United Arab Republic from 1956 to 1961. Anyone wonder why we are now witnessing similarities? Clue #1: It has nothing to do with Iran.
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Egypt is a borderline failed state at this point. They will have mass starvation there in the not so distant future without a dictator to control things in a fashion to ensure the continuation of US subsidy. If they dont get us to do it the egyptians would need to find somebody else to send the check and/or the grain. The eco system there will not even come close to supporting their population and they dont have the economy to feed themselves. I think what the US fears most is a return to agressive nationalism that this kind of chaos could bring and upset the oil/Israel apple cart. They need to keep just enough food in their stomachs to keep REAL riots from breaking out. Just my opinion.
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That’s what makes 9/11 a much more useful study. What study? And “everything changed,” or so we’re told. Actually, a lot changed and a lot of people want to know why.
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