When they say what they really think … it gets interesting!

Zbigniew Brzezinski is one of those characters that operates openly in the shadows, a powerful man with easy access to other powerful people. Among his protegé are Madelyn Albright and Barack Obama. He speaks with a heavy accent, and because he never worries about electoral politics, sometimes publicly says what he thinks privately. It’s not a bad thing – I thoroughly enjoyed him on Morning Joe that morning when he told Scarborough that he was “stunningly superficial.” Joe thought not, saying he reads the New York Times.

It’s that classic situation where a person cannot fathom his own stupidity because he does not possess the intellectual resources to see that he does not have intellectual resources he needs. Better said, stupid people do not know they are stupid. If they knew it, they would not be stupid. That’s the great conundrum of life.

I just mention this because Zbig gave an interview to Le Nouvel Observateur*, Paris, 15-21 January 1998, the meat of which follows:

Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs [“From the Shadows”], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

B: It isn’t quite that. We didn’t push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn’t believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don’t regret anything today?

B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.

B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn’t a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.

Translated from the French by Bill Blum

Let’s not be superficial here. Brzezinski words about Muslims are as true now as then. They are not a unified force any more than “Christians” or “Jews” or “Hindus” are, and present no threat to civilization. For foreign policy purposes, to control the domestic audience, the U.S. has incited hatred of Muslims as the center plank to justify its military aggression, 2001 forward.

In Afghanistan in the 1980’s, somewhere between 850,000 to 1.5 million people died, millions more left the place – those who could got the hell out. Left behind was a US-trained fighting force, the Mujahadeen, that would continue to be useful to this day operating under various names such as “Al Qaeda”, and perhaps now “ISIS” (though I do not reduce that Western-backed force to that one element).

Brzezinski has the typical veneer of the psychopath, glibly unaware of the suffering that he’s caused, indifferent to the tragedy of Afghanistan, seeing it only in geopolitical terms. He qualifies, as does Albright**, as a monster.

Even so, I delighted in his manhandling of Morning Joe. (By the way, sitting next to Morning Joe was Zbig’s daughter, Mika.)
*Keep in mind that this interview, published in France, has never been republished or mentioned in U.S. state-controlled media.

**Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq, 60 Minutes, 5/12/1996, a famous interview where Albright is unable to grasp the concept of human suffering:

Stahl: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright
: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price–we think the price is worth it.

11 thoughts on “When they say what they really think … it gets interesting!

  1. I believe that interview has been mentioned in the good ol US. Or at least the gist of it. I recall when the Z was making the rounds to pump his book and took credit for ending the cold war and creating the Taliban as well as Osama and funneling in extremist jihadists from all over the world to participate in the bloody mess as a secret means of bringing down the Sovs.

    Sounds a little bit self serving to me but maybe it was Vulcan Chess?

    They (those jihadist) have been an endless source of purposefulness, of which our elite found themselves in short supply after the so called demise of the bi-polar world.

    What are you doing watching tv? JK! I watched the video on the Russians liberating the Crimea (among other areas of the Ukraine) last night, JC posted it over at 4&20 . Pretty interesting and lots and lots of documentary footage from the 40s. I hope PW watches it.

    It was funny to see Joe so completely clueless about being clueless. He reads Foreign Affairs magazine, for crying out loud. The Z is like, “We won the game we won the game, you fool, until bush botched it!!!”

    Joe and PW all think they know stuff because they read Foreign Affairs magazine. Z knows stuff but he’s like oblivious to anything that distracts from the game. Like humans, for instance.

    Me, I just think of all of those kids growing up without feet thanks to the bad policy of Z and the cluelessness of Joe.

    I mean imagine what might have happened had we left in the more moderate more secular Afghan regime? Maybe the whole world would be ahead.


    1. Glad you liked the Unknown War episode. It’s one of a 20 part series that debuted in the U.S. in the mid-70s. Here’s what wikipedia has to say about the series:

      “The series was produced with Soviet cooperation after the release of ‘The World at War,’ which the Soviet government felt paid insufficient attention to their part in World War II. Released in 1978, ‘The Unknown War’ is sympathetic to the Soviet struggle against Nazi Germany. It was quickly withdrawn from TV airings after it ran in 1978, possibly because its tone was at odds with the growing tensions between East and West after the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan. Later it returned to airings on cable, including A&E, the History Channel and YouTube.”

      Interesting how it fits in with the Brzezenski theme today. All of the 20 episodes are archived at Youtube for those who might want to indulge.

      I haven’t watched the whole 20 episodes yet — it’s a bit overwhelming (my SO’s German father spent 5 years in a Soviet prisoner of war camp, so it’s a touchy subject around the house). But for those of us who were spoon fed tepid world history in the 70’s high school room and college, we didn’t even get a scratch of the real story. It’s easy to understand how ignorant Americans can be about foreign affairs and geopolitical history, given the pathetic and propagandic treatment those subjects get with the traditional (read “exceptional”) U.S. revisionist approach to history.

      And you know, the more I think about it, it appears that Polish Wolf is really a Brezenski acolyte, Z being a Polish American and all…


      1. I just bought a used desktop computer and put it in my garage so that I could look at YouTubes and listen to broadcasts and stuff while working out there. You’ve just given me a 20-part resource. Thank you!

        Regarding the French interview I quoted above, Chomsky urged his readers to withhold judgement as the official papers of that time had not yet been released. I do believe this is his fatal flaw, that he thinks that the official unreleased paperwork of our government will tell the t, twt and nbtt. He then cautions us that when leaks are being sprung and Wikileaks receives them, that the leaks could be planted disinformation.

        Garrison had a name for this, it’ll come to me A “golden apple”, a planted document just waiting to be found. Had to do with fruit, as a juicy orange or something, but that’s not it.


    1. Wars are never about one thing. It’s always a bundle of concerns. The stuff anout Israel is, in my view, the tail wagging the dog. Wall Street/London could shut Israel down with a phone call and chooses not to for its own reasons.

      More and more I get the impression that Israel was meant to be just another seeded European colony with visions of manifest destiny. SK has put up some links about expansion plans. Just remember that the Ashkenazi are not Semitic, but rather European (Khazars). That’s one of the many lies lies surrounding them.


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