The graph above is known as “HadCET,” or the Central England temperature record, from 1659 to present, monthly in the beginning, daily from the late 1700s forward. When I last put up graphs using Greenland ice cores (link), it was pointed out to me that those ice cores are mere “proxies,” that is, we cannot know the actual temperatures of previous times and thus have to search for other indicators. I think that the implication was that the ice cores, which measure a shift of oxygen isotopes, for that reason are trash.
(Note on HadCET the rise of temperature from 1900-1950, before we began putting large quantities of CO2 in the atmosphere. What caused that? The warmest decade in the lower 48 during the 20th century was the 1930s, easily. What caused that? (No one knows.))*
I don’t get that proxies are trash, that is, they are data, and that data is meaningless by itself and has to corroborate or contradict other data. In fact, the ice cores do corroborate historical records of Vikings farming Greenland and a long period (1250-1850) known as the Little Ice Age. Another commenter then informed me that there were no Vikings, another hoax. I had to wonder then, when it was named “Greenland”, if these damned illusory hoaxing Vikings were into irony.
Aye, Carumba. Now I am being targeted for things I am not certain about, cannot know, such as the reliability of the existence of nuclear bombs and radiocarbon data. It is hard for the non-scientist to evaluate the validity of things. It’s not just this or that, but a whole spectrum or this’s and that’s as complied by our brains and sifted by our own judgment. It is always subject to newer and better this’s and that’s. We have to avoid gurus and over-reliance on authority figures. Why is it so hard to admit that we do not know?
HadCET above is based on a proxy, thermometers. I can go out, as I did yesterday, and hike at various altitudes and judge the feel of the air to be colder or warmer on my skin, and guess at the temperature. But one of the easiest and best ways we have had over the centuries is mercury in a vacuum, measuring its rise and fall and coordinating it and scaling it to known phenomenon, such as the freezing and boiling point of water at sea level. Though just a proxy (even if done in real time), it seems to work.
HadCET came from the East Anglia Institute, a prestigious climate study center founded by Hugo Lamb. EAI is now a prostitute to the climate alarm crowd, disgraced. Michael Mann, as exposed in Climategate, not only dismissed but ridiculed Hugo Lamb as “out to lunch.” It is not hard to ascertain that Mann is a tool, and that the climate change hoax is much larger than him or his “closeted” friends. His word.
So I offer again below, in differing format, the Greenland ice core data with the understanding that it is but a proxy. To my knowledge, the people who spent thousands of laborious hours accumulating and interpreting the data … are not tools. One of Mann’s stated objectives with his Hockey Stick was to eliminate the Medieval Warm Period. HadCET claims it happened, right before the Little Ice Age, as shown below.
I have noted before that the peaks of the Minoan, Roman, Medieval and Modern warm periods are showing a downward trend. I think that might be what the arc on this graph is pointing at, that our current interglacial period is soon coming to an end. That is a projection of a trend, however, and not reality.
* Climate alarmists have been busy reconstructing the past, adjusting temperature records to make it appear that things were cooler before than they were. Soon enough we’ll find that no past data is reliable. They will then blame the Mandela effect. Marc Marano suggested that our current post-glacial epoch, the Holocene (11,700 years ago forward), should be renamed the “Adjustocene.”
23 thoughts on “Proxies and reality”
It is all Greek to me…I jut think Al Gore is an idiot!
If you really think I consider proxies “trash” you are even crazier than I thought. I even gave an explanation for my views.
Another internet fantast who makes his own story.
Your views as I recall were that proxies are not reality. As I splained above, Lucy, proxies are all we have, so we merely try to compliment them with other data, which is why I regard Greenland ice cores as a valid temperature record.
Gaiassphere it could be worse. Just remember those POM coincidences I was going to list off for you whereby it seemed POM’s pieces somehow were mirroring my life names changed to protect the innocent as if streamed for the old and the dickless smart tv’s for dummies with such episodes like swamp donkey whoring Maria sets neighborhood creampie record in only no stingy booty here category that matters while supposed hung like a pimple marked lonesome loser caregiver crooner who lives next to hairstylist house for sale on set of The Goonies. Somewhere Mark Twain is taking a speed shit sans toilet paper since there’s sink to wash his mouth out with soap. Don’t close your eyes or gere feee÷e÷$%+×= hacker.
I am not sure I follow, but Mark is as stubborn as a donkey. While it is hard to typify a large group of people, I see it as typical boomer behavior. I spotted this mostly with boomers.
Even repeating the lie in his answer; the summum of not reading, having your false opinion ready and just dumping it here.
It is so much not the scientific inquiring route against the Voodoo People I like to take. And sometimes Mark does correct himself (Freddie Mercury and Phil), just not often enough.
It’s not that you can be a pain in the ass, but rather the ease with which you make yourself so, as if I am sitting next to an artisan of great skill.
And again, I did not admit error with Freddie/Phil, but rather after a great deal of effort in trying to compare left profiles, even though they were intriguing, I said I cannot “stick the landing.” Since your native language is Spanish, I will translate: I could not convince myself, and so backed away, saying that maybe some day I would stumble on a “Rosetta Stone.” Again, I will explain: The Rosetta Stone was a stela found among ancient ruins that had the same message in three languages, two forms of Egyptian and Greek. It became the key to solving the translation of ancient writings problem. A stela is a stone slab.
Am I being a pain in the ass yet? That too is an English phrase, and it means “persistently annoying.”
Regards your scientific method, at least in this matter, I see it as follows: “Why, that cannot be so! It does not conform to my perceptions. Therefore, it is false.” From that you extrapolate: Mark is crazy.
Here is the difference between us: we both make errors, sometimes egregious. That is not a difference. However, when ticked off, I will smother you in words that will smoke your ass, while you will lose your temper, call people names, and storm out. You love your storm outs!
“Smoke your ass” means delivering a convincing victory.
“Ticked off” is an English phrase that means pissed. I think that it transcends languages. Transcend means to pass through barriers, usually etherial. Etherial means ….
The virtual bee sting hurt and the reaction is as expected. You don’t hide it, that’s cool.
And still your blog and contributors are more serious than Ab’s who publicly endorses a theoretically intelligent guy who claims “fossils are a hoax”, so be assured of my presence here. He will return here too.
“Lose my temper”, or “lose what you imagine my temper is”? I am a full generation younger, have a completely different life experience, live on another continent and you think you know anything about my temper?
Persistent is undeniably true, annoyance can only be at your end, that is not for me to change.
I don’t like being lied to, and least by the people who should see through the lies. I react as I am, and no, my native tongue is not Spanish.
So now you say you get one data point that debunks your hypothesis, which in order to be correct all pieces of the puzzle must fit; as you know an unweighted 1/7,000,000,000 x 1/7,000,000,000 chance 2 people are the same),and still you hold on to it?
What is the difference with “normies” following scientistic magicians who do the exact same thing? Do you really consider yourself “awoken” (or a similar term)?
And don’t you see how you wholeheartedly affirm my observations about your in my view insane stubbornness?
(I still have some hope in me even through that thick boomer skull it will sink in one day, a man can always hope)
Losing one’s temper is generational? I stand awoken.
Do you have a cherry tree farm?
If not, I would start one, if I were you. Which I am not, obviously.
Remember when you thought I was Faye/misom (a 57 something Greek woman from Switzerland) somehow, even though you have chatted with us at the same time…
I mean, how whacko must you be to even consider such a thing?
Confrontational, I understand, and you ascribe that to “annoyance” (which is not a real emotion but the result of a real emotion). Crystal clear.
I chatted with Faye after encountering you. I thereafter distanced myself from her. I found her annoying, the result of a real emotion, distaste.
I suggest you and I spend several days, maybe a week together, to help you understand that I am normal, calm, not prone to emotional outburst (as are you), and as best I am able modest and humble in my approach to learning and able to acknowledge and accept and correct error.
The problem with this idea, of course, is that I do not like you and do not want to spend any time with you.
I suspected at one time that Faye and Barbara Muller were the same person, thereafter shown to be wrong, but never conflated you and Faye.
I remember it was something with me, but then I stand corrected on that one.
Faye=Barbara is still wacky enough and proves you don’t listen to people, grumpy boomer.
Faye, Labor Union worker, Switzerland, has made clear in dozens of chats “space is not a topic I am interested in” but also never ever has said “the ISS is real”.
Barbara, something in banking capital Frankfurt, on the other hand is into astrophotography, astronomy and claims to have photographed the ISS and believes it is real” And never responded to valid questions about that; the trolling part.
Paranoid-detached-from-reality bloggers may see some wild crazy life time acting ensemble here, where one person is impersonating two completely opposite characters , but sane people just see there were two German speaking women, each with their own interests and views.
Let’s not talk about these ladies, but about your fascination for Velikovsky and his crackpot “theories”. Where do those beliefs come from? His story is even more of a Peculiar Plot than Ernie Shackleton or another Hollyjew could write?
The guy is praised by Master Magician Einstein FFS, you take that as a cherry on your fruitcake, I and many people with me, see that as a huge red flag. For more about that; the recent discussion with Cadxxx.
This “Alex Jones” of the 1950s (11 weeks New York Fecking Times bestseller, is that “alternative” or “con-troll opposition” stuff, Mark?) produced some crazy idea that turns astronomy and history and archeology and archeoastronomy and everything upside down and you view that Peculiar Plot as valid?
I mean, why?? What is the sexiness of Velikovsky for you?
Is it because he is a fellow cherrypicker?
Like Simon Shack. And Miles Mathis.
But why? What evidence is there to conclude that in the geologically recent past a comet turned into Venus from Jupiter or so?
Where is the science? The inquiry? The respect for philosophical principles regarding the eagerness for wisdom. And I don’t mean the cherrypicked examples and biblical bullshit** I have read in the few chapters of “Worlds in Collison”…
Why does Immanuel “11 weeks NYT” Velikovsky escape the same scrutiny we (should) give the magical magicians who want to sell us Big Bangs and other bold bullshit claims?
I find Independence Day more believable, to be honest.
** by biblical bullshit I mean taking the admittedly corrupted, rewritten, adapted, translated, redacted and symbolic set of books as an argument against natural, physical science, or as archeohistorical proof, especially regarding dates.
I have nothing against people pulling valuable moral lessons from the Bible; they are universal, good and important.
I sense you bordering on stormout now, that generational difference we have. Your pejoratives are getting stronger and more tedious.
I have said repeatedly that the Velikovsky work I most admire (I have actually read his books, you have perhaps skimmed one) is Earth in Upheaval, a simple listing of phenomena on our planet that are not explained by uniformitarianism. I love his quote, that geologists and other scientists have “solved” these problems by pushing them far far far back in geologic time. Uniformitarianism is as much a religion as creationism.
I have also said, repeatedly, that Velikovsky’s theories about Venus and Mars cannot be proven or disproven, and simply have to sit on the shelf. His predictions about Venus and Jupiter regarding temperature, absence cratering, and radio wave emissions were validated, to the disgrace of the astrophysical community. He apparently knew of the theories recently advanced in comments about Saturn, again, to sit on the shelf.
I await you soon giving it a rest or doing a stormout. I just checked, and sure enough, here’s Wikipedia:
If it is in Wikipedia, it is true.
I thought you might enjoy the following passages, from Stargazers and Gravediggers, a book by Velikovsky published posthumously, as I recall. In these passages he is with Albert Einstein, as in Velikovsky’s account, the two had formed a friendship:
“During our conversation I took this lead and remarked [Velikovsky to Einstein] ‘If one evening I should stop every passing student and professor on the campus and should ask which of the stars is Jupiter, it is possible that not even one would be able to point to the planet. How is it, then, that Jupiter was the highest deity in Rome, and likewise Zeus in Greece, Marduk and Babylonia, Amon in Egypt, and Mazda in Persia – all of them represented the planet Jupiter. Would you know why this planet was worshiped by the peoples of antiquity and its name was in the mouth of everyone? It’s movement is not spectacular; once in 12 years it circles the sky. It is a brilliant planet, but does not dominate the heavens. Yet Apollo – the sun – the dispenser of light and warmth, was only a secondary deity.’… Einstein expressed his wonder. I then told him that in the Iliad it is said that Zeus can pull all the other gods and the earth with his chain, being stronger than all of them together; and that an odd commentary (by Eustathius, a Byzantine scholar) states that this means the planet Jupiter is stronger in its pull than all the other planets combine, the earth included. Einstein admitted that it was really very strange that actions should have known this.
“When, after three quarters of an hour during which we were served tea, we rose to go, Einstein kept us, saying, ‘we have only started.’ In order not to appear a bore or a fanatic of one idea, I repeatedly changed the theme of conversation as is so easy with Einstein, whose associations are rich and whose interests are many. The conversation was vivid. We spoke again of the problems of time, which apparently occupied his mind then, and of coincidence and accident. He observed that it was an accident of unusual rarity that his chair should occupy is very position in space, but that it was no accident that we two were sitting together, because meshugoim (Hebrew for “crazy people”) are attracted to one another.
Since you took time to ridicule me for reading and taking Velikovsky seriously, I also note that Velikovsky called ridicule “the argument of the mob.” Say what you will about the man, I enjoyed reading his words. English was not his first language, so he hired an assistant to scrutinize everything he wrote to be sure that the intended meaning in his native tongue adequately transferred to English. It reads beautifully.
And on a wider scale;
I see POM as having evolved and devolved from highly interesting and thought provoking comments and pieces by Vexman, Josh, Maarten, Terence and others to ok pieces by you and steve and some comments by others.
What dominates in the comments by you, Mark, is indeed that annoyance.
You are annoyed by me, by Big Swede, by Motorhead, by Rico Sauze, by numerous others who don’t share your observations, and make that clear.
If you now have these data points of all these annoyances where the common factor in these data points is you, don’t you think the issue/problem and therefore the solution lie only with you?
Or is the whole world whacko, but Mark “Faye=Gaia, Freddie=Philly” Tokarski is the sane one here?
I found Vexman, like you, tedious writing but interesting in content. It is well known between he and I that I mishandled his exit. He was putting up the standard propaganda about Russian purges and massacres, treated as gospel in the West. None of it in my mind, has passed through the mind of a credible historian. It’s like Hitler – people here are free today any outrageous thing that comes to mind about him, so thoroughly is he discredited. But that is not anything resembling real history. Vexman moved it over to his own blog, and I linked to him. Had he stayed here, this blog would have landed in a crevasse years ago.
Josh, a fan boy of Mathis, left of his own accord, but I never had an unfriendly discussion with him. He did not like what I did to Vexman. I think he and Vexman were too close … Josh a promoter. Josh and I had to simply agree to be enemies, I suppose. His blog turned out to be the Mathis discussion forum that I once thought about starting. That whole affair was revealing and interesting … much more revealed than intended no doubt.
I’ve never said anything for or against Motorhead, but he was perturbed that his comments were going to moderation, which I did not cause. I don’t have complete control over that stuff. I do ditch nasty comments from drive-by assholes.
Rico Sauze sucked up to me to the point of discomfort, but I’ve never censored anything by him. He’s backed down from making me wonderful to making me human now. attacking me in kind of a pro forma way so that he is no longer seen as a sycophant. I am more comfortable being attacked than praised.
Big Swede is a man I have known for decades, a frenziedly galoot, un-self-aware to an inordinate degree. He’s free to post here, but confines himself generally to Reptile Dysfunction, a blog hosted by Skink, who I indeed banned after he disgracefully attacked my late brother as a pedophile.
“Many others” who do not share my observations” is standard discourse. Of course they don’t. Why would they? Do any of us alwasy agree on anything?
I would love it if the others wrote more. That’s why I invited you here, to get more material flowing. You did a storm out, which you now tell me is just a generational difference between us. The key to blogging is regular fresh material, and that burden falls on me no matter that I have tried so hard over the years to get more input from others. People seem to burn out on writing. I don’t. However, I do go through periods of low energy and output, and often put up pieces that I write simply to have fresh material on the front page. It’s been a long time since I did a deep dive into an issue. In part, it’s because even if I spend days and weeks on a piece, which I have done, it is still just flavor of the day when it appears. Why bother?
Your pejoratives towards me are annoying. As are you. That’s not an emotion. It is a fact. Below, by the way, are the current moderation and banned lists. I don’t remember the numbers for sure, and only barely the names. I’ll go erase them all now except for Skink, who stays.
You are “annoyed by me”, you “don’t want to spend any time with me” and yet engage in a discussion with all kinds of information on how you think about people, which is not the point, you don’r read (“generational blah blah blah”) and don’t care about the content of your blog whatsoever, or the people who provided high level thinking. The Soviet Union was a wonderful walhalla, right.**
And the insanity inside you is now highlighted even more by publishing what, IP addresses of people on your blog, private information to “win a discussion” or I don’t know what?
Stay off those pills, this is serious man.
**note the “strawman”
I merely responded you your attacks, as I await your next eruption.
I’m sorry everybody thinks you’re a prick, little buddy. Let’s chat about isotopes one day. I have some ideas where we can start.
I was thinking maybe we could start with the lunatics at Caltech and their moon rocks.