The US Supreme Court has overturned Roe V Wade and turned the matter of legal abortion back to the states, where it never should have left.
I will not get into legalities. That’s beyond me. I only want to recount my experience not of abortion, but as a young boy raised in an intensely Catholic environment. I was 21 when Roe v Wade came down, and I was appalled and disgusted. At that age, so inexperienced and overly righteous, I had no problem in judging that women, once pregnant, needed to stay pregnant, and either put up their children for adoption, or set aside their lives, futures and careers and raise that child.
How do unwanted pregnancies happen? Poor judgment, strong impulses, changes in circumstances, and probably most importantly, alcohol. Slowly over time my attitudes began to soften. Sometimes pregnancy is an unplanned mistake, and if there is a way out without killing a fully formed baby (or fetus), I thought it best to take it. What is more important – the life of a fetus, not fully formed or sentient, or that of a young woman, who should be allowed to make a mistake and still have a future.
My attitudes towards Christians, especially fundamentalist Christians, hardened. This even as I read and internalized The Varieties of Religious Experience by William James. From that I gleaned that the settling of religion into sentient and intelligent people was a real event, and that from that event people had better lives and more happiness than they would have had otherwise. I was not so affected. Even with that in mind, I thought abortion to be none of the concern of religious people.
So I had bounced from disdain towards pregnant women to disdain towards religious believers. I was still an extremist.
Only age has softened me. I now look at the whole political spectrum surrounding abortion to be comprised of sincere people holding deep beliefs that they come upon often with thought and compassion. Those who oppose abortion on demand want life to be true to beliefs and people to be held to very high standards.
Those who favor abortion on demand have a more humanist outlook, that the life of a woman who has become pregnant either by accident or against changing circumstances or against her own better judgement has to matter as much as the the life of a fetus. Good lord is that a hard choice. Women post-abortion often face guilt and depression taking months or years to get over. I do not envy them that position.
Of course I am troubled, as a man who has caused four pregnancies and five children to exist. Abortion is ugly. If a person looks on abortion as a sacrament, that person is far too hardened for my taste. If a person regards abortion, legal or not, as a hard choice, then it is our role as caring humans to understand and accept and support what ever outcome is chosen. We are not the final judges in these matters, and extreme suffering surrounds every choice.
The Supreme Court did not rule abortion illegal. No doubt Utah will soon do so, perhaps Idaho as well. I expect that California, for instance, will have legal and illegal enclaves and that abortion will go on there just as before Roe v Wade, only less reliable and healthy for the pregnant mother.
I find late-term abortion to be utterly repugnant. I find all abortion to be repellent. But I am a man. I’ve not gotten pregnant, and cannot begin to know the troubles of, say a young teen, finding herself with a living being inside her and torn between the natural unconditional love that a mother feels for a child, and the need to be free to make choices about her own life without interference.
This issue is not straightforward. I’ve been on both sides, and had no business on either. As an non-religious man, I really cannot justify harsh judgment against anyone.
31 thoughts on “Dobbs versus reality”
What a refreshingly open and fair take. Thank you, Mark.
Like many timely events of late, I always think back on this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/
It’s an excellent piece if you (or any of your readers here) haven’t seen / read it yet. It may he hypothetical, (or not) but the premise is beckoning for critical minds
Thank you. I have printed it to read tomorrow morning. It is 4,600 words by the way.
It’s a long one for sure. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Very interesting … what would it take to trigger me? What scissor statement? I’ve become so mellow, as you can see by the way I wrote this post, not angry at anyone.
This abortion debate is a very big scissor statement. It’s already being fanned by money and Intel. But like I say, I’ve been on both sides and had no business on either.
Wander on down to a link provided by Big Swede, a rational comment that is going to inflame everyone.
Harsh judgment is the business of the Supreme Court? Is that so? Says who?
I find this latest planned controversy consistent with the historical plethora of other social trauma engineered to divide man (men and women) into fragmented, warring, imaginary “special interests” used for millennia to maintain imperial power within a small group of aristocrats (bloodline families) over against the 99.9% of man not so entitled to the same pleasures enjoyed by the .01%. It is “the contract.”
Like all wars, 9/11, various celebrity ritual assassinations, “Covid 19,” etc. we are “triggered” to react emotionally, not with the full cognitive capacity Creator gave us at birth. Our participation keeps the prison of our own (mind) making operating as intended. More and more self-supporting slaves are figuring out this game, and want out. The real-life version of the Truman Show is slowly, but surely, reaching its conclusion. Who will sign up for the next episode, and who will walk away? The system cannot continue without our consent to remain inside the prison walls of the illusion. Walking!
In this debate we should never forget that – apart from anything more unsavory and ‘creepy’ – a whole industry has sprung up around abortion, with embryo cells and after birth uses for ‘medications’ etc. Most people who scream loudly about the right to choose are not aware of the practices that have been going on. If they knew they would no doubt be as horrified as I was when I first found out.
“Abortificants” have been in use for far longer than written history and far, far longer than the State, the Religious institutions, or men, have been aware of their use. Population control when we were all ‘uncivilized’ was the domain of women. A woman could bring on her menses very easily each month with a simple tea of herbs well known. Painless, common, and not considered a horror to herself or her tribe.
“But I am a man.”
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So you’re saying that a young woman can’t have a future unless she rids herself of a pregnancy? Maybe that baby will be part of a wonderful future for her, or someone else if she chooses to give it up for adoption. If she has the baby, she will have a future.
We are talking by one another.
Dick’s Sporting Goods is offering any employee, spouse or dependent $4ooo for out of state (slipping in and slipping out) traveling expenses to get an abortion. They must consider sex some type of sport or exercise. They’re now a “Full-Service Outlet”… Let Walmarts beat that one. This is no joke, look it up.
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The decision to abort a pregnancy will always be a hard one. At least for sane women. The burden is the same as with giving the birth. We have countless possibilities to avoid a pregnancy and if one still gets pregnant there always will be possibilities for a abortion. Legal or not. Also not having a right for a abortion does not make it illegal. At least one can always go to a place where it can be done and just claim to lose the pregnancy then. It is as old as humanity.
What is happening now in the USA is a new distraction to keep the folks busy and agitated. The protests are scripted. New laws will be invented. On the other side, they may still need some aborted fetuses for their medical voodoo. It’s how they found about about “fetal calf serum”. They squeezed aborted fetuses and used the body fluids on cell cultures and found out that the cultures didn’t die as fast and since then millions of cows worldwide get pregnant and killed just for this purpose: to get the blood from the heart from the unborn calf. I kid you not. Of course aborted fetuses don’t get wasted either. Or maybe they don’t need that anymore hence the changes in law since the truth is out that this voodoo with dying cell cultures does not work anyway.
No one to blame but themselves.
Could not agree more.
Blame is such a common self-defense mechanism we scarcely see ourselves in the cause or the outcome. Blame can also be defined as projection, denial. Blame, as a defense mechanism, preserves one’s sense of self-esteem by avoiding awareness of your own (similar) flaws or failings.
Why blame someone when there are historical systems that we all unconsciously allow to rule our individual potentiality? Our conditioning, it’s another way of accounting for our mass subjective opinion based on hive-mindedness and ignorance of how we arrived at this highly subjective, secular-authoritarian mindset.
One could just as easily blame the Enlightenment. I criticize myself for ever believing that the U.S. Supreme Court could serve objectively as a superior moral judge and jury over against the law of nature and Creator. I am at fault for this foolishness, which I still must struggle to overcome. They’re just doing their job, as they were when Roe was enacted by the same “activist” court in a different time. This (fascist) system cannot, can never, issue moral judgment that does not favor always those in power in worship of money — practicing participants in the God of Mammon cult. One cannot serve two masters.
Very heavy statement, well articulated.
If you still want an abortion, try the Pfizer vaccine.
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Thanks for the offer, Swede. However, I’m much more interested in exorcism at this point. I’m afraid this is beyond the reach of the Roman Catholic Church. Secular exorcism, if you please.
Yeah those 10 commandants, they gotta go.
Jewish Italian Medici Family invented sect of Humanism and humanist outlook.
Why murder an innocent child for mistakes of parents?
When we negate that human life begins from conception we can always subjectively increase age of killing of people
law unborn child inheritance
After abortion possibility of cancer increases
post abortion syndrome
“Human life begins at conception.” What about other life?
And where can one get this “license to kill?” That’s right, the United States (government) of America’s Supreme Court.
To keep the masses from wandering off the plantation (our so-called “democracy”), our own government maintains a monopoly on violence and the threat of death, and as is self-evident, is not all that worried about using it against its citizens, even those who don’t yet have a Social Security number. Property and contracts rule. Don’t take it personally, it’s just business.
Prepare for the Dark Ages.
They could’ve made that SO much funnier. What about all the eggs? That’s where the humor is. Every one will gain such a great price.
The abortion narrative as told from the pro-life perspective. Or, at least, that appears to be so according to the above video (I suspect trolling). Honestly, I don’t mind if human fetal cells are liquidated. The fewer suckers born every minute, the better, IMO. Sounds cruel, I know, but it’s justified because it won’t get any better from now on.
I know who will tremendously benefit from the recent Supreme Court decision in the long run, though: Big Business & “Government”. If things continue as they are now, both sectors will see a boom of human slaves they can hire/conscript and charge/tax money from. It would also be a huge boom for private prisons, another profitable tax-funded racket.
Ordinary Americans will suffer the most from this, as there’s no proper nationwide safety net to make sure that all children will receive proper care and nourishment, which is also great for the bottom line of the ruling class: more vulnerable people they can take advantage of at every opportunity for their pleasure and wanton lust for endless wealth & power at any and all cost.
It’s also, as far as I see, just another way of furthering the divide amongst humans. People who want or need an abortion that reside in places where it is outlawed or heavily restricted may have to leave close friends and relations to risk visiting communities where it is allowed. Those people may also have to use transportation more often, which the ruling class has a monopoly on, so they rake in more profits from that, too.
I don’t see anything altruistic about the court’s ruling against Roe v. Wade. Considering the influence special interests have over federal policy – be it on regulation, spending, or taxes – I see the decision as yet another assent to the oligarchy, just like Citizens United, etc. Their friends probably need more “free labor” to exploit, so that’s the gift they’re giving them.
Beyond the so-called legal “rights” and the moral dilemma, what is the possible correlation between the contents (nano-adjuvents, including graphene oxide) of the mRNA Covid vaccines and generational decrease in human fertility? Over at New Agora is a new article that discusses a rapid decline in birthrates.
“The SADS truth is that the shots are working spectacularly well. And thanks to their real purpose Moderna, Pfizer and the globally interconnected cabal of depopulationists have helped settle the issue of abortion for society. There is no need for “my body, my choice” protests or “insurrections” ladies and betamelt white knights, just go get another booster and you can throw away your rubbers for good.”
“Both generous companies in collaboration with the federal government have taken it upon themselves to continue the work of planned parenthood with mandated and coerced mRNA treats. Operation Children of Men has launched with tremendous success over the past 18 months and the first returns are now coming in from Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, and the UK. There will be no need for abortions soon, as there will be fewer and fewer fetuses, and babies to abort. The “vaccines” are doing all the heavy cutting now.”
There are studies that indicate “may affect.” This means we are again faced with a moral dilemma. The obvious choice between using this (Covid/nano/graphene oxide) technology for good or for evil is challenged by the fact that we live in an amoral system. Ethics and moral judgments rarely have influence on the decisions made about buying and selling. Financial profitability will likely determine future human reproductive outcomes far more than moral considerations.
Here is one such study:
“In summary, an updated overview of the scientific literature concerning graphene and graphene-related materials and reproduction in several organisms, from Archea to mammals, including Human, has been provided here. What is emerging is a very interesting perspective presenting two sides of the same coin: on the one hand they could be harmful materials, with possible toxic effects on such delicate and important function; on the other hand, it is possible to speculate that the GRMs, and GO in particular, could represent a possible way to fight the problem of infertility by manipulating spermatozoa in a safer and better way.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7926437/
Sounds like either way, we will be “manipulated.” Invest in vax-free fertility companies. Seems like smart money as natural births may become, let’s say, trending downward.
I must say, it’s a convenient form of population control. Why need to put people through brazenly invasive forms of controlling reproduction via surgical abortions and conventional sterilization when you can do it with drugs and vaccines that are marketed as “safe and effective”? If you have the option to do it differently with much greater success, why not try?
Plus, huge profits are to be made from them, as the past two years have clearly demonstrated. When war profiteering won’t do, pharma profiteering will suffice. And with a docile, slavish population that is open to fleecing at every opportunity (taxed, price gouged, etc.), even better for your bottom line.
The Polio vaccine can be seen in the same light, as it reportedly caused cancer (SV40) in many recipients and even deaths, yet it is lauded by mainstream liturgy as a wonder shot that cured – or reduced cases of – the disease (despite the fact that Polio cases were already disappearing due to better sanitation). Had it been patented, it would’ve officially made $7 billion for vaccine manufacturers, which is a nice steal.
Vaccine-injured people also make great customers for the pharmaceutical industry, for they’ll likely be dependant on medications prescribed by pharma hacks called doctors that carry high price tags (which, like the vaccines, are also tax-funded, so the victims are already paying for their pain in advance. BARDA comes to mind) if they don’t turn to naturopathic medicine that provides superior treatment for ailments.
Wickedly brilliant, don’t you agree?
In a world where ‘brilliant’ has become synonymous with ‘devious’, then yes.
We can then take this scenario to its next logical conclusion. Where will the new world babies come from? In vitro fertilization is already very popular and successful. I’d say it’s likely all the girls’ eggs will be ‘donated’ to the collective and those who get properly licensed will get inseminated from the rainbow egg pool. This way the masses will be a genetic melting pot making the pure bloodlines even more distinguishable from the crowd as they already are.
Hence the term “wickedly”. From their perspective, it’s brilliant because they can present something that does more harm than good as “safe and effective” to the sheeple, knowing they’ll buy it. And if there’s a “dangerous pandemic” around (like what we had recently), even better. Understanding human psychology, they know that most people in a disaster-like scenario will react more quickly, which includes spending more money without regard to cost (as Trump and Biden’s response to the Coronascam, like Bush’s handling of the War on Terror, has clearly shown). Plus, with their numerous gatekeepers and distractions, they divide the herd against each other so they won’t stop their incredible money-and-power grabs in plain sight.
Will it really be that much harder for anyone who wants an abortion to get one? Red states already had very few abortion clinics. There was already travel involved. If that’s too difficult, many will be able to order pills online and have them mailed to their door.
Every one of these recent rulings seem like they pack much more symbolic punch than actual. When looked at beyond the headline. Their real impact seems to be to make liberals bleed from their eyeballs and then break down in tears. Is that the actual goal? To give Democrats a chance in the midterms? The conservatives have had plenty to get worked up about for awhile – now time to make sure the other side is equally irate?