Jonestown: More questions than answers

The complete five-part Jonestown series:
Jim Jones: The Fake early years
Jonestown: Introduction
Jonestown: More Questions than answers
Jonestown: Not so remote after all
Jonestown: The end

We are off on another trip, and so any work I am doing on Jonestown is on hold. However, I did take time this morning to look into Gaia’s work on this subject, which is still visible at Fakeopedia, here. After reading that I realized that I don’t have to reinvent the wheel, but merely pick up on, highlight, and perhaps expand on work already done.

In reading that work I realized as well that this is a massive undertaking. I have more questions than answers, but am settling on one aspect that makes everything else more poignant:

No one died.

Stop and think about it – the people who supposedly died there were from the lower casts of society, at least that is the story. They were mostly black, and that adds to the unspoken and indelicate attitude that these were not important people, sorry to say. So there are several angles from which we might approach the event:

  • We assume real deaths. Killing them would be inconsequential. It is easy to kill people who no one cares about – what did Chomsky or someone call them? “Unworthy victims”?
  • Murder is consequential. Almost all of us are incapable of killing another human. If there were indeed 918 victims there, then there would be perhaps 300 families, and of those 300 families, maybe a dozen people would want answers and actively investigate what happened. That would be a nuisance – they would have to start arranging accidents and suicides for those people too. It is a whole lot of trouble.
  • C’mon. 918 people do not commit suicide all at once under any circumstances. I realize that suicide is a common thing, the tenth leading cause of death. But imagine the improbability of assembling 918 suicidal people. It could not be done. What would have happened once it was understood that mass murder (forced suicide) was going on? Mass panic, people scattered all over the hillsides and in the jungle, and a massive effort then to find them and murder them. That is, as the military expression says, FUBAR.

How much easier if they just had a photo shoot and wrote a back story. Lincoln was wrong – most people can be fooled ALL of the time.

So set aside the mass death scene, and what is left?

  • Was there indeed a compound there?
  • Was it really in Guyana? (Pictures is all any of us know, so it could be anywhere.)
  • If Guyana, why Guyana?
  • Were people growing crops and raising children there?
  • If so, who were these people and where were they from?
  • Why did Jim Jones have any interest in this compound and its people?
  • Why did they decide to close it?
  • Why did they stage a fake mass suicide?
  • Did Congresswoman Ryan fake his death? Or did he die for real? Did he stumble on something important? Is that what triggered the panic?
  • Was this some sort of military operation?
  • Was this some sort of corporate venture?
  • Was this event planned, or spontaneous?

Two things come to mind as I view aerial photos of the Jonestown compound: A military base, or a mining operation.

One of the explanations offered among those who assume that people really died that day is that this was a CIA mind control experiment. I discount that idea in total. Whatever progress that has been made in mind control is apparent all around us. We already live in the Zombie Apocalypse, most people brain-dead already. Scratch that. As long as we have TV, further attempts at mind control are redundant.

Obviously I have bitten off more than I can chew – I knew that going in. I am thankful for Gaia and all the others who have already worked on this. I mentioned in the comments that perhaps this can be a clearing house for information on Jonestown, where all the work done can be centralized … but that was Gaia’s objective at Fakeopedia. Since Faye and Ab have jettisoned Gaia, I would like to preserve his work here. I don’t think it is secure over there.

Finally, I received an excited email from Kevin, who is working the genealogy aspect, something he is very good at. It did not take him long to stumble on something really interesting, and yes, this is a tease. We agreed that he should use a separate headline when he is ready to put that work up so that it does not get lost in the comments.

Adios for a while. I will be in Billings, Montana, for a few days, and it has Internet, I know. I will have an iPad, and will be aware of what is going on here, watching the comments with great interest. After that, we will be in a campground in Yellowstone National Park that has no Internet and no cell signal, part of its appeal. It is a small place that has a small creek running through it and a larger one running by it. It is like … Jonestown north. Maybe all of us campers will get together and commit suicide. It happens, you know.

19 thoughts on “Jonestown: More questions than answers

  1. If the Jonestown area had hidden value (minerals, etc.) why stage a hoax that turned the world’s eyes toward this valuable region? One guess I can make is that the military personnel that went in there would be hard to account for if there wasn’t a clear and present hoax requiring them to be on site. We pay for the military and there must be some honest watchdogs trying to report on these expenditures. (Or am I too pollyanish on this?) If there was a good excuse, well, it’s too remote to check on the details but there they are, with the stalwart press, and what a shit storm. Yikes!
    What I don’t know is whether private contractors snuck in on the military’s coat tails which would possibly be untraceable, financially. This method has worked in recent years out in the open, but back then there may have been congressional restrictions to contend with and the misdirection opened the back door for private exploitation in a region that really needed military expertise* to secure the area first.
    Just a guess.
    *I’m talking about engineers as well as combat expertise. Whatever proto-BlackRock might have gone in there on the sly never shared their profits with the taxpayers who footed the bill, ‘natch.


  2. C’mon. 918 people do not commit suicide all at once under any circumstances. I realize that suicide is a common thing, the tenth leading cause of death. But imagine the improbability of assembling 918 suicidal people. It could not be done.

    This is very true. It is also true people have a herd mentality (hence the term “sheeple”), but at the same time every individual has a survivor instinct. There would be a lot of dissenters on that day. The story tells us there were a lot of dissenters beforehand but not on that day, with just a handful of survivors. Sociologically that doesn’t make sense, especially not given the large “dataset”.

    Many stories were told by people who just “happened to be” that day in Georgetown, the capital (and actually only developed place in the whole country).

    Was there indeed a compound there?
    I think so. Much easier to just use an existing compound than building it for just this staged event. I assume it was a combined military-mining compound, which would have all the facilities -and security!- to shield it off, host people and stage such a thing.
    Was it really in Guyana? (Pictures is all any of us know, so it could be anywhere.)
    I think so. It could be in other places but not “anywhere”, it is clearly tropical (soil) and relatively flat. It surely looks like what I imagine of Guyana.
    If Guyana, why Guyana?
    The story goes that Jim Jones (whoever he really is/was) went to scout the area already before Guyana became independent from British Guyana (1966). In between there were skirmishes around that independence. I don’t know if Jones’s scouting is true or part of the story, but it doesn’t really matter. What matters is that it was:
    A – an inaccessible place (Tyrone is right, see more below)
    B – a place with logistical support (military airfield, compounds, basic infrastructure)
    C – in South America

    A and C are related in the sense that think about it; it was just sandwitched (no typo) between a couple of major other psychological operations:
    – 9/11 1973 – the staged murder of Allende in Chile and admitted involvement of that freak Kissinger
    – 1975 – end of Vietnam War – so a lot of soldiers available for new operations
    – Nov 78 – “Jonestown”
    – 1979-81 – that other televised staged event (Argo, the horrible propaganda movie by Brat boy Affleck, that won the Oscar for best movie, handed out personally by Mich(a)el(le) Obama/Robinson…!)
    – 1980s – Grenada invasion (SE Caribbean, not too far from Guyana)
    – 1980s – Nicaragua, again admitted involvement of CIA, also Guatemala was a military dictatorship with -I believe- real mass murders of indigenous people (like you said “unworthy victims”)
    – 1980s – Falkland/Malvinas “War” (talking about remote British overseas colonies)

    Were people growing crops and raising children there?
    If there was a military/mining compound, small farming facilities could have been there. Supply lines were (and are) very difficult in that remote part of South America. See below too.
    If so, who were these people and where were they from?
    I think mostly local actors/spooks/military and a handful of flown in actors from the US. Pay them 10,000 dollars and they keep quiet, no problems, it’s a fortune in Guyana 1978.
    Why did Jim Jones have any interest in this compound and its people?
    He was used by the military industrial complex and played his role well is what I take from it. See Malcolm X, a comparable figure. Or Jesse James Robinson (I suspect he is Orpah “Winfrey”‘s half-brother, drafted that idea back at Fakeopedia)
    Why did they decide to close it?
    Myth creation and no more use (new mining areas?)
    Why did they stage a fake mass suicide?
    Part of the psychological warfare, weeding out the last remains of “the anti-establishment hippie movement”, prepping for the 1980s.
    Did Congresswoman Ryan fake his death? Or did he die for real? Did he stumble on something important? Is that what triggered the panic?
    I think he was part of the whole thing, no loose ends needed. Or he may have been sacrificed if he indeed was a rogue, a cog in the wheel, but I doubt it. Also giving credence to statism; “oh no, a Congressman!”. Like those people are any special.
    Was this some sort of military operation?
    Military-mind control-mining operation, MM MO, I would say. Feel free to re-interpret the meaning of that abbreviation, lol.
    Was this some sort of corporate venture?
    I think so.
    Was this event planned, or spontaneous?
    It has all the hallmarks of a planned event to me.


    Last year I was looking into flights to Guyana, as one of the few South American countries I haven’t been. Anno 2017 it was extremely difficult and very expensive to get a flight even to Georgetown. And it is close by, in distance that is. Without looking it up I’d say something like Denver-San Francisco or so. 40 years ago it would have been just impossible to “check that area out”; no peeping toms, guaranteed.

    I have been to neighboring Suriname and was amazed by the low development even of the capital. I can(not) imagine the countryside (where Jonestown was). Roads are unpaved, sanitary is very limited and the climate is hostile and horrible. There is no access to that area other than from the coastal capitals of the Guianas (Georgetown, Paramaribo, Cayenne). The thick jungles of the mineral-rich Guyana Shield do not allow overland travel.

    I live in the most developed parts of Colombia; the Andes. A drive from here to the capital is about the distance from Denver to Salt Lake City (again; an estimate, I didn’t look it up) and that takes in 2018 8 to 10 hours. And yes, I like fast driving…


    Some other thoughts I have:

    Why call it Jonestown? There is Georgetown, the capital, if I recall well named after King George of England (one of them), but why “Jonestown”? Wouldn’t you want to give it a sexier name for a cult? Like “The Tropical Peoples Temple” or “Praise Jesus, be a Socialist in Guyana”, but come on, something less of a personal cultist and more of a general cultist thing. That ties back into the impossibility that 900 out of 909/918 people would go along sheepily (is that a word?, now it is) with a mass suicide. Compare: “the Führerbunker”, “Adler’s Nest”, etc. Not “Hitlerstadt”. Ok, there was Stalingrad, but that is different.
    An interesting connection, too obvious and at the same time not too obvious; Alex Jones.
    1 – Both called “Jones”, whatever their real last names are/were, but that is the too obvious part
    2 – Alex Jones is heavily linked to the successor of Jonestown; Waco (that you looked into in detail and has a very similar MO)
    3 – both controlled opposition clowns against “the establishment” of the day; Jim Jones in the Johnson-Nixon-Ford era, Alex Jones in the Bush-Obama-Trump era
    4 – take the recent staged “suicide” of Jones on the internet and how much of a cult YouTube/conspiracy websites actually are or have become. I see it as a modern -digital- analogue to Jim Jones, inaccessible or uninteresting to many, making the clown even more clownesque and for his followers/supporters conspiracy candy.
    People love mysteries and this kind of drama
    I do too, admittedly. I have always been intrigued by “unsolved murder cases”, “disappearances” and such. Even did quite some internet sleuthing on those cases years before coming here. That has helped me a lot too, I think, in seeing links other people may miss out on. A mass suicide of 900+ people speaks to the fascination of people. It was essentially in culture creation strategies a continuation of the serial killers of the 1960s and 1970s (but far from restricted to those decades). Prescriptive programming with the Tate murders was 10 years before…
    It has been said from what I read and heard in videos “in the height of the Cold War”.
    I don’t know about that, it was before I was born (I was in my mother’s big belly at the time of “Jonestown”), but I would say that the Bay of Pigs staged event-Nuke Hoax-Space “Race” was a much more “height” of the -scripted- Cold “War”. 1978 was already way past that.


    Mark, when you are back from your great travels (Yellowstone, I am jealous!, please take photos and share them), you may want to look into the similarities with “Waco”; you being the expert (at least relatively, but your take on it was excellent and complete, a pity Faye interrupted you all the time and the audio was far from ideal) on that and Jonestown was essentially the prescriptive programming for Waco, as much as the Cleveland High School shooting (1979) was it for Sandy Hook (2014) and the SS Ironic (Naronic, stripped but still at Fakeopedia, 1893, I am the only one who ever looked into that story) for the Titanic (1912).

    I also look forward to Kevin’s great genealogical take, I agree he’s a master at it and the tease was good marketing (as opposed to the lot of bad marketing around us).

    If you like, and thank you very much for saving the content that is being destroyed as we speak that I put out there at Fakeopedia/Fakeologist, I will send you an email about other events that I think are of interest for the readers to talk about, look into and especially -in the sense of Nabokov, thank you for the quote- links to other psyops.

    I have missed out on quite some years compared to most people here, but I try to catch up and history is much more interesting than yet another staged “terror event” that would be visible in “the news” today.

    Those things are at the surface, Gaia goes deeper than that. 😉


  3. Oh boy, I was wrong, the US is BIG!

    First claim:
    Denver-San Francisco vs where I am now-Georgetown indeed is comparable in as-the-crow-flies distance, the latter a bit more

    Second claim:
    Denver-Salt Lake City vs where I am-capital Colombia is twice as far in the US, but takes the same time according to Google Maps. Both through the mountains; Rockies vs Andes.


    1. The US is big, Gaia, but well developed. Today we drove from Denver, Colorado to Billings, Montana, 585 miles through Wyoming and Eastern Montana, areas barely populated, and yet having four lane Interstate and 75 MPH traffic, safe all the way, gasoline when needed. 585 Miles in Guyana would be, as i imagine, dirt roads and air strip to air strip. Quite a difference, Infrastructure has shrunk this country.


      1. Yes, I get you. I don’t know much of the US first hand, but I’ve been to Denver, that’s also why I took it as an example. I liked the city; good vibe, nice people. Way different from Texas where I went afterwards (and even there met the rare good people).

        Guyana even today is -it cannot be so different than its neighbor- like nothing. So 40 years ago, it would have been like some African shithole. (nothing against Africans, just the level of development)

        Getting all those people there already would be an achievement and then running an active community in the freaking middle of nowhere, feed them, clothe them, get simple things as shampoo and toothpaste, in a former village of just 50 people -as the story goes- is just ridiculous. If not run as a military/mining operation…

        Kevin’s findings are indeed as you said WOW. Love it, this is what real truth seeking is to me; a group effort where everyone adds their own expertise and cooperates to a good goal. Great.


  4. Speaking of sheeple:

    Speaking of crazy compounds in the middle of nowhere:

    I checked Wiki under ‘1978’ and noticed that about a month before, JPII was elected pope after JPI had died suddenly; also, this was the first “three popes in 1 year” event in about three centuries. Beyond that, I saw minor (?) rumblings in Iran and Latin America that would later play a role in Carter’s replacement by Reagan. Who knows?

    I’m trying not to get too hooked on all this stuff because as others here have noted, many of these events may all just be rabbit holes, designed to go nowhere as a form of distraction (or even mind control?). Beyond that, I got ups and downs of my own, so why ask for trouble?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Oh yes, great link, the (staged) murder of John Paul I.

      I’m trying not to get too hooked on all this stuff because as others here have noted, many of these events may all just be rabbit holes, designed to go nowhere as a form of distraction (or even mind control?). Beyond that, I got ups and downs of my own, so why ask for trouble?

      I agree, one of the reasons I switched off for some months. Don’t let the self-fulshilling prophecy (no typo) get to you!


    2. The Taos article is liberally sprinkle with the number “11,” making it suspect in my mind. I don’t rule out anything, but don’t automatically trust when I see that number used that much.

      The sheep article made me think about how we bandy about this word “freedom.” Not “liberty,” not “independence,” which have more substance in my mind. “Freedom” is transitive, and needs to be paired with other concepts, as in freedom to roam or freedom from surveillance. But freedom by itself is wishy washy, means nothing. Yet all Americans imagine they enjoy freedom even as they are hounded by the tax collector, the TSA, a police-state mentality, fear of crime and terrorism, maybe the least free people on the planet. Our kids leaving high school thinking of themselves as lions and tigers and join the military, undergo deep indoctrination, and give up their minds (or what remains of them after formal education) too.


  5. Good stuff above, Gaia, and thanks. I do not know how to preserve your Fakeopedia work other than to copy and paste into MS Word and then save on my own computer. Is there a better way? Is it covered in the Wayback?

    I was just yesterday browsing through old books and reading my writing in the margins, going back to when GW Bush was president. I was very much invested in the idea that he was a stupid man. The key is that I was emotionally involved in his presidency. Now I look at events in a detached manner. I am in no way connected to the Trump presidency, and was only with Obama for a few months. So Jonestown to me has no emotional impact. It is a riddle to be solved, nothing more. No one died, something happened, we were misdirected, deflected, but from what? Jim Jones is just an actor, and my work above about his background is wasted effort. It is put there to misdirect, nothing more. He is hardly a factor.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. I don’t believe in hypnosis, cult leaders or magicians. All those cult stories are scripted. They always make movies about it. There are kibbutz in Israel, where people live together for some time, there were hippies communes back in the 60-s, there are small communities like the Amish. But all this is based on reason not on religion. The Amish live together because they prefer this kind of security which sharing work and its fruits gives them. Not because they want to practice their version of bible based religion. It is always about security. We feel insecure because of all those fake hoaxes and look for a solution. A religious cult based on a supreme leader would never work because it does not generates any security. The counterpart. Security comes from equality of the members. A leader will only be accepted if he does his part of work and additionally helps the group in some way. The members of such communities expect advantages in their earthly life not advantages in the afterlife.


    1. Good thoughts … the closest I have seen to cult-like behaviors are the Mormons, and they do use psychological techniques for deep indoctrination. Those “misisons” are just that, taking kids away from their families, isolating them and having them spy on each other and report bad behaviors. Most Mormons I have known stay Mormon, but I do know three who have broken away. They don’t go around murdering people or encouraging suicide or bizarre stuff, but they do tend to stick inside their groups, and they do punish anyone who breaks away, shunning and all of that. So I would call Mormonism both mind control and a cult. My own Catholic upbringing was not far behind, though Catholics do not punish those who break away. They try to lure us back.


  7. Good article. I’ve recently been looking into the Jim Jones Jonestown psyop myself. I have to say I disagree with the there were no deaths. Miles Mathis and a few others continually pump the NOBODY DIED in these kind of events. I personally believe and through my own research that these events are far more complex than we think. Yes it is a psyop in the way everything we are told about it is a lie. I do agree on the mind control aspect. This wasn’t done for mind control. America has been under mind control for a very long time. They already have that covered. What some say this event was, was warring factions, families within the deep state jocking and vying for power and the Jonestown massacre was collateral damage in this quite war.

    I do agree that some of these events, nobody dies. Dead people makes the operation far more difficult to handle and things get to dirty to quickly. But at the same time these events are far more complex then to fake deaths or Fake events for shits and giggles or culture and society change. There are very powerful families that control governments that have access to advanced technology and endless money that are in conflict with each other.

    There’s a good book called “Fire from the sky” written by a military intelligence whistle blower that goes into detail about this event. He describes the Cold War as we know, was fake. Powerful families had interests in both nations. Russia and America were working together not against each other. It was until they agreed to have a nuclear war and Russia pulled out and decided not to go along. This is possibly were Jonestown massacre comes in according to this book. Russia (Bolsheviks) controlled Guyana or had a nuclear weapons base there and America, (Rockefellers) needed for some reason to covertly get a hold of it. Mass death casualty of Americans good excuse for America to go in there. Jim Jones and the people’s temple cult was brought down there to serve that purpose and that purpose only. Other stories that were told was Guyana has a huge gold deposit that was found in caves down there. Also as the cult was under control of the families the whole time, various corporate and government experiments were done on the people there. One was for the pharmaceutical industries. Experimenting on them through the food and crops that were there. Of course all this is conjecture. None is proven true only through various investigations, research and whistle blowers. The cult members were more than likely shot by military not poison. Jim Jones might still be alive and doing other operations. Totally don’t believe there was over 900.

    Bottom line is nobody will know the real truth and even if it comes out, who in there healthy mind could ever trust anything that comes from so called authority. But many of these operations are far more complex than we may initially think. Like the Las Vegas shooting we discover a similar pattern with Saudis and deep state drug and him distribution may have been involved which brings in my mind and quite war within these elite families which also may have some sway in these operations.


    1. If this was a Cold War psyop (and Jones’ fake background certainly paints him as a Russia sympathizer and communist), then there would be a bigger rabbit hole pointing that direction. I don’t read anything Russian into it anywhere. The mining aspect has some explanatory power, the problem there then would be movement of ore to a place with lots of electric power for smelting. That generally involves a river and transport, or trucking on a large scale. The airstrip they built doesn’t get the job done. That was used for supplies and movement of people, no doubt, but nothing more.

      Thanks for chiming in, but I suspect our answer is somewhere between too simple and too complex. This event appears to be a coverup for something else, not exotic stuff like mind control and the fake Cold War, and not a cult. I got nuthin’.


  8. Leo Ryan surely is a shady character:

    After the Watts Riots, looks like not faked, but instigated on purpose, like Rodney King 27 years later of 1965, Assemblyman Ryan went to the area and took a job as a substitute school teacher to investigate and document conditions in the area. In 1970, using a pseudonym, Ryan had himself arrested, detained, and strip searched to investigate conditions in the California prison system. He stayed as an inmate for ten days in the Folsom Prison, while presiding as chairman on the Assembly committee that oversaw prison reform

    So a history of undercover operations…

    he was famous for vocal criticism of the lack of Congressional oversight of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), authoring the Hughes–Ryan Amendment, which would have required extensive CIA notification of Congress about planned covert operations. Congressman Ryan once told Dick Cheney that leaking a state secret was an appropriate way for a member of Congress to block an “ill-conceived operation”. Ryan supported Patricia Hearst [known from her staged kidnapping and being the granddaughter of one of the biggest crooks of history]

    Playing both sides; going undercover and voicing for more clarity of the CIA… Hmm…

    Ryan was friends with the father of former Temple Member Bob Houston, whose mutilated body was found near train tracks on October 5, 1976, three days after a taped telephone conversation with Houston’s ex-wife in which leaving the Temple was discussed. Ryan’s interest was further aroused by the custody battle between the leader of a “Concerned Relatives” group, Timothy Stoen, and Jones following a Congressional “white paper” written by Stoen detailing the events. Ryan was one of 91 Congressmen to write Guyanese Prime Minister Forbes Burnham on Stoen’s behalf.

    Later, after reading an article in the San Francisco Examiner, Ryan declared his intention to go to Jonestown, an agricultural commune in Guyana where Jim Jones and roughly 1,000 Temple members resided. Ryan’s choice was also influenced both by the Concerned Relatives group, which consisted primarily of Californians, as were most Temple members, and by his own characteristic distaste for social injustice

    Posing as a “concerned” congressman, but active in covert operations himself…
    Bob Houston’s story is fishy as highlighted before.

    On November 1, 1978, Ryan announced that he would visit Jonestown. He did so as part of a government investigation and received permission and government funds to do so. He made the journey in his role as chairman of a congressional subcommittee with jurisdiction over U.S. citizens living in foreign countries. He asked the other members of his Bay Area congressional delegation to join him on the investigation to Jonestown, but they all declined his invitation.

    So even though there were funds for a unique trip everyone declined? Are you sure you really asked them, Mr. Ryan, or that is just part of the story as you were selected to play that role?

    17 days to prepare this act, should be enough. The news crews who traveled with him also had many days to prepare, while the Guyanese (?) military was preparing the “scene”…

    On November 14, according to the Foreign Affairs Committee report, Ryan left Washington and arrived in Georgetown, the capital of Guyana located 150 miles (240 km) away from Jonestown, with his congressional delegation of government officials, media representatives and some members of the “Concerned Relatives”.[33]

    That night the delegation stayed at a local hotel where, despite confirmed reservations, most of the rooms had been canceled and reassigned, leaving the delegation sleeping in the lobby.

    HAHAHAHA, sure! Who writes this crap? You do not really believe this, right?

    That night, the media and the delegation were returned to the airfield for accommodations following Jones’ refusal to allow them to stay the night. The rest of the group remained

    Which rest?

    Note that on Geni only his parents are named, like the rest of his family is unknown… sure. His ex-wife goes back to a jewish family for many generations and back to the first settlers of Massachusetts (think Salem)… So his non-famous ex-wife is clear, but Ryan’s genealogy (at least at Geni) leads nowhere, hmm…


    Headlines in the New York Post,[28/11] the New York Times,[21/11] and the San Francisco Examiner[22/11] originally cited reports from the Guyanese army that 408 people had killed themselves while more than 500 others managed to flee into the surrounding jungle.

    The U.S. military arrived several days later and the body count quickly rose; first it was 700, then 780, to a final tally given seven days after the Guyanese report of 909 dead, 4 followers dead at the Temple offices in the capital of Georgetown, and 5 members of Representative Leo Ryan’s delegation, including the Congressman himself, murdered at the Port Kaituma airstrip. Only 167 Jonestown inhabitants were reported to have survived.

    – while the Rolling Stone article says “the press was only allowed in 8 days after it happened”, we have reports in 2 newspapers BEFORE that (NYT and SF Examiner) and a report AFTER that (2 days; 18/11-26/11-28/11) and all of them publish much lower figures for the amount of dead in Jonestown? So Mark, your observation about the “200 bodies max” may be a bit more, but then 408. Which is also untrue I think, but it fits the photos better. But still we have a problem with the whorenalism now. Either the Rolling Stone interview is false or the publications by NYT and SFE are just invented. Or rather both…

    Despite Guyana law requiring an autopsy for any unnatural death, the Americans insisted that the cause of death was readily apparent and additional inquiry was not necessary

    Aha. So my earlier idea was right; the bodies should not be laying there in the tropics waiting for photographers to be shot on camera, but they should have been examined at autopsies…

    For a number of reasons, some legal and some merely logistical, the bodies were not flown out of the remote jungle location of Jonestown for up to a week before being flown to New Jersey, which allowed significant decomposition to occur. Ultimately seven autopsies were conducted but the medical examiners were not informed of Dr. Mootoo’s preliminary findings and the corpses were far too decayed for injection sites or other wounds to remain identifiable during the procedures.

    Really? The Guyanese military lacked helicopters? 7 autopsies occurred? Really? So the other claimed 902 are just made up?

    Richard Dwyer, whose name was listed in Who’s Who in the CIA, was Deputy Chief of Mission of the U.S. Embassy to Guyana at the time. There exists a strong likelihood[citation needed] that Ryan would not have been at the airstrip during the attack without direct intervention by Dwyer. Ryan had intended to remain at the Jonestown compound to continue interviewing families while those wishing to return to the United States were taken to the airstrip, but as the dump truck was leaving Ryan was attacked by Peoples Temple follower and alleged Red Brigade member Don Sly (also known as Ujara). Ujara wielded only a knife and the attack was quickly ended. Ryan was cut in the attack and decided to board the dump truck headed to the airstrip. Already on the dump truck was Larry Layton, who, despite warnings by the defectors that Layton was a strong supporter of Jim Jones[citation needed], had been allowed to join the group at the last minute. Layton participated in the attacks on the Ryan delegation, ultimately serving nearly twenty years in prison after being disarmed and failing to kill his targets on the Cessna, becoming the only Peoples Temple follower to face criminal charges for these events.

    On September 27, 1980, a column by investigative reporter Jack Anderson was published under the title “CIA Involved In Jonestown Massacre.” According to Anderson, Dwyer and Jones had ties to the CIA, with Dwyer’s ties dating to at least 1959; when quizzed directly about this alleged CIA involvement, Dwyer responded “no comment.” At one point on the sound-recording made during the mass suicide, Jones’ own voice commands, “Take Dwyer on down to the east house” and a short time later, Jones says “Get Dwyer out of here before something happens to him.”

    The misdirection is there; there were real deaths, but it was the CIA! but at the same time the presence of the CIA (head of the embassy FFS) might well be true, but then to organize the staging, not the murders.


    1. All very intersting. I would venture that only seven autopsies indicates only seven deaths. I would venture that failure to investigate mass murder indicates no mass murder. Ryan does look spooky. Still, I am no closer to understanding this event … miles to go.


  10. I still am not convinced at all about fake deaths at Jonestown. I accept the evidence about death fakery in general. But the question answers itself in the case of Jonestown. Expendable liminal types and a handful of kooks were used as lab rats and terminated at the end of the experiment. The kool aid death story conflicts with the more substantiated stories about murder by Jonestown goons and armed forces in the area.

    The Long Kiss Goodnight still answers the question for me – “I have no idea how to fake the death of 3,000 people so I am going to go ahead and kill them for real”.

    The arguments against real deaths are sometimes persuasive but it’s a mistake to make every situation fit that solution. In the case of Jonestown actually killing supernumerary people of no further value is a lot more useful than hoaxing the deaths of unknown and unloved people. And every time there are actual fake deaths it allows the substitution game to take and give back the identities used by agents.

    I think the general theory of fakeativity needs to be ameliorated with the recognition that Lies, Inc. is more than happy to maim and kill where necessary. It raised a separate question of when there are real deaths, how much of the surrounding information about the deceased is true. The answer usually is “very little”.


    1. That scene reminds me a little bit of Dr. Evil and Austin Powers … “I’m going to place him in an easily escapable situation involving an overly elaborate and exotic death.” He then leaves Austin alone, assuming everything will go according to plan. I assume Geena Davis here escaped and everything fell apart for the bad guys. She’s a really beautiful woman, and I always lose suspension of disbelief in a plot when someone such as her possesses intelligence, physical prowess, and great beauty at once. Life ain’t like that. If it were a real woman of prowess in that situation, it would more likely be Janet Reno.

      The movie is actively foreshadowing. The 1993 bombing was also a hoax, no one died, and was the beginning of the emptying of the buildings, preparing them for demolition. Such a plan boggles the mind, as it entails hundreds, if not thousands of people actively involved (need to know basis of course), and sworn to secrecy. How much easier it is to simply assume that it was bad guys, and that everything went according to plan.

      Anyway, Jonestown, I realize that my position will not sell, but I stand by it. Certain aspects cry out for explanation … why less than 200 bodies when supposedly “909” died? There are no photos showing other bodies. Why all face down? Why Guyana? How did such an elaborate infrastructure as this camp come to be? How did all of the supposed victims get there? Just the logistics of transporting a thousand people of no means 4,500 miles is a staggering obstacle. Then feeding them and housing them … just to kill them? This situation screams hoax. There is an assumption that maybe a few are killed for real and no one cares, but murder is an obstacle for people of character, and I surmise in all my wanderings these past years that the people behind these hoaxes are possessed of a sense of morality, even if it is unfathomable to us on the bottom looking up.

      Jonestown struck me as odd, having what appeared to be a helipad, and many roads and a large parking area for a place that had no vehicles. The camp was a professionally constructed infrastructure meant to house and feed many people, including taking them in and out routinely by use of the helipad. I don’t know if you read through to the end, but it turns out that the site also happens right on top of an active gold mine, which would explain the camp, facilities, heavy equipment, roads, and location (which had the added value that no one would go there to check it out for themselves).


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