Two essential conversations on health freedom

Following are two conversations I heard today that I feel are vital, and among the most enlightening and enriching I have absorbed since the beginning of the pandemic narrative. Hint: the one common denominator is Dr. Tom Cowan.

If (like me) you have listened to nearly all of Tom’s interviews during the past year, in reference to viruses and vaccines, there are still new intellectually stimulating, health-supporting, heart-stirring, and life-affirming nuggets to glean from these two April 2021 chats.

Enjoy at your leisure (and at a playback speed that personally suits you). I sense readers (even those who may not fully support Tom’s position on viruses) may walk away with a similar feeling as I did. Regardless, I hope it inspires dialogue in the comments section. I am not offering time-stamps, as I encourage everyone to listen to these videos in their entirety.

54 thoughts on “Two essential conversations on health freedom

  1. hi there,
    it is actually every day more obvious and nobody can claim anymore he didn’t know. I’m still asking myself, was it a mistake or is there a higher purpose. Right now I’m watching the current stream of the German Corona Ausschuss created by Reiner Füllmich. It’s being done every Friday and they fight the corona hoax with judicial instruments. As for now it is only talking. They give hope and it is fun to watch, but other than that, nothing important happens. Yet still I give them credit and when it starts to fall it can fall very quickly. We’ll see. Tom Cowan works together with Stefan Lanka and the last gave recently some interesting interviews unfortunately in German only until somebody translates that. The tenor now everywhere seems to accentuate the importance of everybody’s responsibility. One of the goals of the corona hoax seems to be to bring people back to democracy, make them participate in elections again and such. Hygiene is another important goal of course. I’m very sure the end was planned in advance and will come as planned. The people who script that have the experience of uncounted hoaxes from the past, some of them as big as the corona hoax. They know what they do. The western medicine is the turning point. There may be a reason behind the facts that many hospitals has been recently closed, that the capacities are still being reduced (instead of being expanded as one would expect in a pandemic). When you accept that the infection theory is wrong, that all the allopathic medicine is wrong, then almost the entire medicine as we know it becomes obsolete. Maybe in a decade or so there won’t be any hospitals anymore, doctors will not wear any coats and drug stores will sell only herbs.
    regards
    B.M.

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    1. The electric vehicle agenda may be a similar situation. It only makes sense, if the rolling out of a new technology is at hand, providing endless electric energy.
      Back to the ‘rona, there is a paradox. An evil system would want to get rid of the thinkers and individualists, but at the moment it looks as the NPCs will suffer from the vaccines.
      Another point, you got to destroy the materialistic science, if you want to bring in a world religion.

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      1. “you got to destroy the materialistic science, if you want to bring in a world religion.”

        No. Materialistic science, where claims are made outside the realm of what’s verifiable by the layman for equipment reasons, that kind of “science” is the new religion – a religion you can’t rely on. (Not that I would rely on any other religion.)

        “Habe Mut, dich deines eigenen Verstandes zu bedienen.”

        Immanuel Kant is my prophet. (But I must confess I haven’t read his books yet. 🙂

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  2. Barb:
    The goal of the healthcare (sick care) industry was to empty the hospitals this time around, and their aim is to close the brick and mortar hospitals – indefinitely. They don’t want them anymore. They want it all to be digitalized “Smart Care.”
    See these two links (presented before the pandemic operation):
    https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/3773299656?profile=original
    http://hmpi.org/2017/09/06/a-vision-of-the-future-organization-and-delivery-of-healthcare-in-the-digital-age/.

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    1. and even this is fine with me. When people no longer hope for health from a hospital, they will suffer less. Digitalized health care can’t do more damage than the allopathic medicine does. I’m with Stefan Lanka who is optimistic, that till the end of year, the hoax will be gone and that the school medicine will be debunked. Even though the majority of doctor goers will still continue to look for all kind of pills. Old habits die hard.

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      1. Barb: Not to be a Debbie downer, but I am not as hopeful as you – at least not in the regard that you stated above. I have observed nearly all of my colleagues and friends in the holistic health community (with the exception of a few) sign up for the jab. They have reverted to the allopathic model. The “new and improved” digitalized smart care system (incorporating smart biosensors in wearables and inside the body) will be even worse than the previous model, in my opinion – another Trojan horse.

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        1. Stephers,

          I’m really wanting to see the sequel to the second video, where the discussion continues, elaborating on Dr. Cowen’s closing argument beginning @ 1:14:30 time-stamp.

          To paraphrase: “The basis for trans-humanism is the quest for immortality…”
          “…we already have it… the part of us that’s real is immortal anyway.”

          Solution: “…obliterate fear…”

          Fear of death, fear of Covid, fear of terrorists, fear of wildfire, floods, hurricanes, fear of nature, ie. fear of our(true)selves. Fear of fear itself. Break the spell.

          Liked by 1 person

  3. “One of the goals of the corona hoax seems to be to bring people back to democracy”.

    I’m sorry, but mandatory “vaccines” and “vaccine passports” do not support the idea of “democracy”.

    Freedom of travel taken from the people do not support this “goal”.

    In fact, if you ask me, Global Communism / Hell on Earth and NOT Democracy appear to be the goal.

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    1. Are we not in a long, drawn-out transitional period between the perception of democracy and totalitarian reformation at a global scale? Democracy is the precursor of re-branded global monarchy (Crown). “Dangerous populism” was a description attributed to Plato if “history” can be believed.

      “Single-minded ideology invites totalitarian politics into democratic systems. Consider the long history of race-based slavery and discrimination in the United States. The popular ideology of racism against non-Whites fueled a doctrine of discrimination and a culture of prejudice. Indeed, in modern democracies predicated on popular sovereignty, danger lies not just at the top of the political hierarchy, but across the masses who collectively hold power. Nineteenth-century French diplomat Alexis de Tocqueville dubbed this phenomenon “the tyranny of the majority.” Even the ancient Greeks understood popular opinion as a threat to justice in democratic systems. That’s why Plato described democracy as the necessary precursor for tyranny and tyranny as the inevitable outcome of democracy. Popular sovereignty, he contended, produces dangerous populism and then tyrannical dictatorship.” https://www.thedartmouth.com/article/2020/01/jones-the-totalitarian-mind

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  4. And I don’t support the idea that “they” created this hellish nightmare as a means of making the population so very aware of how precious “their Democracy” really is!

    …So that the people will “cherish deeply” their so-called Democracy.

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  5. One can even argue that there is NO Democracy and never has been!!!

    Is Finance and Money creation “Democratic”??

    Never has been and never will be! Is the housing bubble here in US ” Democratic”??

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  6. Show of hands, how many of YOU ( as in Democracy) voted on the U.S. $7,000,000,000,000 “Stimulus” to the crony Corporations???

    Anyone???

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  7. Reframing the Reset
    The use of the Controla Virus Scam exposed:

    how gullible we are to “dancing dots on a screen” models and actors
    how easily scared and malleable we were 
    how to shut down businesses in a broken world money system and give “a reason”
    how to shut down hospitals as their profit margins no longer float them
    how to take charge of our health
    how to get people to appreciate freedom
    how to get people to stand for something beyond the material
    how to get people to become more self sufficient
    (and ______________, ___________, ____________).
    Who knows if the next great “controla” will be global energy shutdowns
    or ultimately an alien scare?
    We are being shown the $y$tem and its $ynchophant$ are broke, busted,
    and can’t be trusted. 
    This is ALL being done without legal coercion, with our consent.
    The big top is leaving town.
    Let’s wave goodbye to them,
    direct energy to “Our Sideshows,”
    and build something…

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    1. Still many unanswered questions. The Alt media are speculating all kinds of possibilities. Many predictions are feasible and some are just too obscene. As of now I think it’s safe to say this is not about a deadly flu virus, that was just the advertised starting point. It’s no longer about wearing face coverings, social distancing or avoiding people and places. Don’t waste time on those issues.

      We need to look behind the curtains, notice keywords in the many different news headlines. Sometimes news of an event is released slightly ahead of time in an off brand overseas newspaper.
      I am seeing an Alien scare, blackouts, hurricane, another riot event, racial conflicts, immigration issues, rising prices of food, gas and necessities, vaccination passports and removal of paper fiat dollars. Put those issues on a dartboard close your eyes and throw for an outcome. Yet I’m also seeing job creation, increased city/county budgets for future projects, and a sense of group community participation in various areas. The Doom and Gloom is there in a big way, but also a lot of contradicting Good optimism is there at the same time.

      TPTB can tank it now if they want. They don’t need to wait. Games are being played at the high levels.

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  8. Thanks for posting these, Stephers. There’s a lot out there, so it’s helpful to have a little curating. I usually just listen to Fakeologist audio, if anything (incidentally, I heard JLB raving about the Armungh Rieh(sp) call, and heartily second that after digging it up. Very compelling speaker. Might be too wuwu for some, but I found his angle on the world refreshingly original. And thoughtful.)

    Anyway I’m on the road this weekend so had some time. First one, the lady was a little implausible to me – she had a high ranking Goldman Sachs job, but was surprised at wgat she saw? How did she reach that level? Their filters/ screening must be malfunctioning. Still interesting, and she may be legit, just seems curious.

    Second one, slow to start, but eventually had some informative bits – I actually should replay second half – zoned out or had some distractions and missed stuff.

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    1. TIMR–I also felt something was slightly off, though very much enjoyed the conversation, and want to believe! Asking for money always makes me think twice a bit, and the part where she said her vaccine detox first made her eject a bunch of parasites. Could it be that on her holiday she picked up parasites and those had made her so sick?? I’m definitely not trying to defend vaccines…just noticed that and found it to be a bit odd. It’s definitely something I would argue if I were trying to defend vaccines, and so makes it seem like controlled opposition (with the bottom ready to be blown out of the boat as Martin Vrijland would say). But it is also very difficult for me to imagine that these people are faking what they say they believe so convincingly??? It is all so strange!!!

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    2. TimR: Thanks for taking the time to listen the videos I suggested. As always, I think we can only take what resonates and leave what doesn’t. I do not know Leslie personally, and I can only go by her story therein to ascertain if she is genuine. While it may be curious that she was surprised by what she experienced at GS, I do know friends and extended family members who comprise the “managerial class” (borrowing that term from Ab), and have achieved these high-ranking jobs without ever having any such “aha” or “come-to-Jesus” moments. They are wholesome, caring individuals, and would not want to be a part of anything subversive or corrupt. However, I think they have too much of their livelihood on the line to ever allow themselves to (consciously) peek or poke into the bear’s nefarious ways, if you know what I mean. In any case, last night I listened to the recent chat with JLB and Ab and Uncle Odd. Near the end, when Ab and Uncle Odd dropped off, I was pleased to hear JLB’s take on blockchain/crypto. He seemed to align with my perspective. Overall, it was a great conversation. I finally found the chat with Ab, Jan Erik, and Armunn Righ. I am listening to it now. Thank you for the recommendation!

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      1. That’s true, there probably are many functionaries in “the system” who don’t think too deeply about what they’re involved in. It’s the water we all swim in so, probably applies to most of us to some degree.

        I would think you’d like Armunn Righ, based on your writing. Look forward to your comments if you have any.

        I was a bit irked when others (understandably) wanted to get their voices in – he was so compelling, I just wanted him to have the floor, or be interviewed and answer thoughtful questions about his worldview. Although it’s very intuitive and probably untestable… Still it “resonated.”

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      2. He also has an interesting conversation in the comments to his audio. One of the few explanations of the Bible as metaphor that’s ever made a lot of sense to me. Would love to hear more about this “parasite” he speaks of – not really sure how literal vs metaphoric he means it.

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        1. TimR: I am only an hour into the conversation with Armunn. He is new to me – although what he shares feels resonant, and like a remembering of sorts. I read his responses in the comments prior to starting the audio (I tend to work backwards like that!). I look forward to hearing more of him, and I will continue. But, since you asked, I just wanted to reply to you with my initial take. I find Armunn to be learned, intuitive, and very easy on the ear. I also got frustrated already (only an hour in) with the interruptions, and was very impressed with how kind and responsive he was (at least in the first hour) to this. I appreciate that, despite the incessant disruption, he was able to resume his line of thought. That is difficult for most.

          My sense (from reading his writing, and listening to some of his monologues) – in reference to the mind parasite – is that he is speaking quite literally of the Archons (or what Steve K. and I have addressed here – Wetiko). Personally speaking, while I tend to blend the Gnostic material (i.e., Archons) with Native American mythos/ethos (i.e., Wetiko), I am aligned with Armunn in that regard. Accordingly, I also resonate with his discussion on shadow work. You may be interested in the work of John Lamb Lash – if you have not explored it: https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/gaia/esp_gaia20.htm.

          If you are inclined (and it seems you are), here are various links to Armunn’s works to read/hear (pick one that suits you best), in which you can enjoy his thoughts without interruption. I will be digging further into his inspirational monologues, as he does resonate with me. On a much deeper level, when he writes about Sophia (see first link below), it feels very personal, as I have had meaningful and very emotional connection with her archetype (via dream state and quantum-healing hypnosis therapy sessions). I am happy to (attempt to) elaborate on that at a future time if you have interest. In fact, you may have provided for me the inspiration and “push” I needed to post about the Sophia archetype, and how it may relate directly to our current scamdemic experience. Thank you (and JLB, and Ab) for the introduction to Armunn!

          https://thegodabovegod.com/the-gospel-of-the-living/ (this may be borrowed writing, as I can not tell if it was authored by Armunn or re-printed)

          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvaC9mCDhii4t3fxLkyHqQQ/videos
          https://www.bitchute.com/channel/qCMR2o4W1wls/
          https://anchor.fm/armunnrigh

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          1. Thank you for the links! If they talked about his site(s), I missed it. Agree, he has a very pleasant speaking voice and cadence. Easy to listen to.
            I’m not usually drawn to this genre of highly speculative, esoteric/ “New Age”/ spiritual musing and discussion. But it made a lot of sense to me nevertheless. And in general, all the “scientism,” and seeing some religious communities (at least) resist, has opened me to their world a little bit. Like Ab joking about joining an actual church, before he’d join the new “science cult” church.

            I mean, I worked an event at a medium-size town Baptist church a couple months ago – mostly unmasked attendees, and several of the dudes shook my hand with firm handshakes! More handshakes than I’ve engaged in, otherwise, in the entire past year… Lol. It felt like a welcoming place of mutual respect and goodwill.

            Further, I will say too that there have been times I’ve seen something flash in peoples’ faces – people I was wary of, for one reason or another – that seemed like a demonic presence. Maybe there’s a “scientific” explanation for such things – maybe the brain is able to detect malevolence through some sub-micro burst of adrenaline, and show you a “two-faced” individual, as a matter of self-defense – or maybe it just underlines your pre-existing concern with such flashes. Or, could it be that there’s more to this universe than the materialism many of us accept as a basic default tenet? Maybe we’re able to see flashes of “wetiko” or demonic possession – as in the cult movie “They Live.” (Talk about wuwu! But there you go, what can I say… Strange times lead to strange speculation.)

            I don’t say either that I’ve never been subject to it myself. Not by any means of course. None of us are “pure as the wind-driven snow.” We all have light and shadow. I like Miles’ encouraging words, that it’s better on the light side. It may just be an assertion, but, it lends a bit of moral support, given my appreciation of his (I assume his, who knows) work. And since I don’t belong to any actual church..!

            Liked by 1 person

  9. Off-topic I know, but I couldn’t resist.

    NASA made it to Mars again:

    I think it may actually be somewhere in Chile or perhaps the Mojave desert.

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    1. What you’re watching is masonic mockery.

      You need atmospheric pressure / density to produce lift. Mars’ atmosphere is 1% of Earth’s so Mars’ atmosphere is basically outer space.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Mars

      Imagine a helicopter lifting off the ground here on earth. Now imagine this same helicopter trying to fly in outer space, it cant, it would spin helplessly. You cannot produce lift in outer space.

      Also with no atmosphere, minimal gravity and zero moisture, that dirt would be as dry as baby powder. Yet when it allegedly creates enough lift and launches theres amazingly no dust generated from the lift? Pffft.

      What you’re witnessing is a two handed masonic masterbation misdirection, the left hand is making you feel good while the right hand is stealing all your money, destroying your country and your children’s future.

      All of them wearing orange shirts is masonic also. Orange in Pythagorean numerology equates to 33. Just as all of the Black n White in SpaceX costumes honors freemasonry. Black n White comes from their Kabbala “as above, so below.” Only one religion uses numerology, gematria n the Kabbala secretly.

      Nasa in hebrew means “to deceive.”

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      1. Its an international mafia, thousands of years old, that has infultrated every position of power. Sorry if the following disturbs you but voting will not change anything. Prepare, the enemy is making their move.

        33 is extremely important to them, its called their Master Prime. Theyr consumed by it. They leave their 33 pissmark on everything.

        “Orange” County LA California, 33rd parallel
        33°40′12″ N,  117°46′48″ W

        Trumps missle attack on Douma Syria over fake chemical attack, 33rd parallel.
        33°34′16″N 36°24′17″E
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douma_chemical_attack

        USS Liberty ship attempted sinking by israel, 33rd parallel
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

        Satan fell from Heaven on Mt. Hermon Syria 33rd parallel
        33°24′58″N 35°51′27″E
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Hermon

        1 slave port in USA, Charleston, SC, 33rd parallel

        32°47′0″ N, 79°56′0″ W

        Solomon’s Lodge (oldest freemason temple in SC, minutes from #1 slave port), 33rd parallel
        32.817712°N,  79.996105°W

        Civil War started Fort Sumpter SC, 33rd parallel
        32°45′8″ N, 79°52′29″ W
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Sumter

        Abu Garab alleged prison abuse, 33rd parallel
        33.292303°N 44.065597°E
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prison

        Iraqi central bank, 33rd parallel
        https://maps.app.goo.gl/J6JUTVnHcFfvtRgY8

        Lybia central bank after Gadaffi’s assassination, 33rd parallel
        https://maps.app.goo.gl/ADBxgRNRPX9EZE6r7

        Federal Reserve bank Atlanta, 33rd parallel
        33°31′6″N 86°48′38″W
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Bank_of_Atlanta_Birmingham_Branch

        Federal Reserve bank Dallas TX, 33rd parallel
        https://maps.app.goo.gl/DBNRrSQuYGNtS5TM6

        Federal Reserve bank LA / San Diego, 33rd parallel
        https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z65zGxAYdFftizTS8

        Bill Clinton alleged birthplace Hope Ark, 33rd parallel
        33°40′4″N 93°35′24″W
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope,_Arkansas
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton

        Spoiler: Nikki Haley alleged birthplace Bamberg SC, 33rd parallel
        33°17′54″N 81°1′55″W
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamberg,_South_Carolina
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_Haley

        JFK assassination Dealy Plaza Dallas TX, 33rd parallel
        32°46′45″N 96°48′31″W
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy

        1st nuke, Trinity site AZ, 33rd parallel
        33°40′38″N 106°28′31″W
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_(nuclear_test)

        NFL football
        32 teams (32 levels freemasonry)
        22 players on the field (22 letters Hebrew alphabet)

        Arizona Sun “Devil” NFL football stadium, 33rd parallel
        33°25′35″N 111°55′57″W
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Devil_Stadium

        1st Gov of AZ buried under a pyramid “Phoenix” AZ 33rd parallel
        33°27′6.8″N 111°56′39.7″W
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt%27s_Tomb

        Nagazaki & Hiroshima nukes
        Hiroshima 34th parallel
        Nagasaki 33rd parallel
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

        Nagazaki & Hiroshima nukes dropped Aug 6 & 9, 1945, 32nd week of that yr
        32 levels of freemasonry
        https://www.epochconverter.com/weeks/1945

        SpaceX Falcon9
        Falcon9 numerology (Pythagorean cipher)
        F=6, A=1, L=3, C=3, O=6, N=5
        6+1+3+3+6+5+9 = 33

        EVERYTHING is by their design. The list goes on and on. WW3 will be started by (((them))) somewhere on the 33rd parallel, in August on the 33rd week of the year. My guess 2033. Post war, on your knees, they’ll force in their nwo.

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  10. you guys took me wrong. What I meant was, that this corona show is being driven against a wall and there is a good chance that this is being done on purpose to once and for all change the so called western medicine into something useful. Of course they do it in a way the Majority will not recognize it as what it is. We Europeans still vaccinate only old and handicapped people bu my US-friends write proudly how sick they got after their firs or second jab. Ain’t that crazy? This people are afraid of eating GMO’s but eager and proud to inject concentrated GMO’s into their bodies. Then they write how sick they feel to encourage others to follow them.

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    1. I see where you’re coming from, it’s certainly worth considering. Always appreciate the fresh perspective you bring to things.

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  11. they also want frustrated Corona deniers to participate in elections to punish current Corona parties that way. There is a major election in Germany in autumn, and they already announced the worse possible candidates from all parties. The message is clear: if you don’t elect, nothing will change.

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    1. ML, thank you for this link. I’m terrible about watching videos, but watched this beginning to end and even rewound and rewatched a few sections because I was laughing so hard that I missed some of the serious points.

      This is a straightforward presentation of facts, but the visuals, and the narrator’s offhand, deadpan snark (he’s like a smart-ass version of Sgt. Joe Friday) make it really entertaining.

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    2. ML – I concur with ScottRC – very entertaining, given the visuals. I found the presentation to be both funny AND gross, but it gets the point across effectively. I will be sharing among select friends and family, and I am keen to see if it clarifies the situation for those who are still on-the-fence about the existence of viruses – and more so, for those who still insist on the causality of illness from viruses (even without any scientific evidence). Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

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      1. I’ve been reading your work, and that of others who reject germ theory, with an open mind. But it’s such a staggeringly Big Lie that I’ve found it a lot harder to get off the fence about than, say, 9/11 or Sandy Hook or other hoaxes that jarred me into the process of “waking up.” The idea that NO diseases are transmissible—that the string-pullers who miseducate doctors know this and deliberately use germ theory as a cover for the effects of their own mass poisoning of humanity—seems so preposterous that I sound loony to myself just writing it. Yet it seems there’s a lot more evidence pointing in that direction and away from germ theory. I’m not sure that the video ML brought us pushed me off the fence, but it sure left me dangling by a thread, swinging to and fro on your side. It will be interesting to hear if it has a similar effect on the friends and family members you share it with.

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        1. SCOTTRC,
          I hesitated (only a few hours) to add this to the mix, but science is what it is. Some good, some bad. I’m not a scientist. I do resonate with much of that Clint Richardson has written specifically on this subject. I can neither judge, nor discern, a solid position due to my cognitive limitations. Perhaps you, and others, can glean some added perspective of value. https://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2021/04/14/dr-andrew-kaufmans-viral-disinformation/

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          1. I don’t know if I can stand to come back to this screed again, after skimming and reading here and there. Are Clint Richardson and Patrick Jordan one and the same?

            Richardson immediately sets up a strawman/red herring misstatement of Kaufman’s words and arguments, and sets off from there with an unbelievably long-winded, self-congratulatory, and ego inflating word show. Very tiring, and we can see who is demanding attention.

            The following paragraph quote should be self-applied, but of course is aimed Kaufman’s way:

            “Kaufman is very clever in the way he debates his stance that no virus has been “isolated.” But let me just say from the start here that his argument is based on a specific and purposefully instigated logical fallacy. That fallacy takes root in, you guessed it, the language arts. Words.”

            Now that it’s been “proven” that Kaufman is a shill, Clint graciously clues us in to where the real story lies in his conclusion:

            “Finally, I’m happy to say that my next documentary, part 2 of Wagging the Dog, the Story Behind the Story of Covid-19, will be coming out soon. It will consist almost entirely of more panel discussions behind the closed doors of the NIH speaking about all the viruses they have mutated through gain of function in the lab and allowed to escape.”

            Wow.

            Liked by 1 person

            1. OREGONMATT,
              Clint and Patrick are not the same person, as far as I know. I’ve met neither personally, but have read some of their books. Both seem to me to be imperfect, passionate human beings with a lot of talent, but not a lot of support for the work they do. I must have a soft spot for certain temperaments that others don’t. No matter. Each to his/her own. I respect your opinion and work too, and always enjoy considering your point of view.

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              1. Thanks Steve, I was being a bit sarcastic. Both of them have this markedly ego-driven, polemical style of discourse, and seem to take delight in “smashing” the opposition. I recall Jordan’s dismissal of those saying that viruses don’t exist, saying that this line of thinking is just another diversion promoted by the CIA.

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          2. Steve – Oh my. Reading this (I don’t even know what to call it) bitter discourse by Clint left such a bad taste in my mouth. I think I am somewhat speechless. I may have to defer to OregonMatt on this. It took me a very long time to get through the content, and I began with an open mind. I was very curious to hear his refutation. If there was any solid evidence in his position (which I must have missed), it was deafened, in my opinion, by his incessant libel of Kaufman. I can’t even count the number of defamatory statements therein. (Big sigh.)

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            1. While Clint may consider himself above the law (as he may argue that libel/defamation are an artifice of a misguided/fraudulent legal system), I would question, in this regard, where are his ethics and morality, at the very least? He was a featured speaker at a Free Your Mind Conference I attended years ago, and I missed his presentation. I have read some of his writings – not much. I will dig deeper into his work. I am curious if this particular piece is representative of him. I don’t know, as I do not have enough context.

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              1. Stephers,

                You are right, Clint has expressed so much bitterness in this piece, I’m not sure what’s going on. Too isolated, perhaps. I know he’s been through a lot of censorship and trolling and all the rest one might expect from the vast majority out there. Not trying to excuse, but rather, show compassion for a fellow traveler. It’s easy to lose hope in dark times, and I would say we are in very dark times. Thanks for your honest and open-minded review and opinion.

                Liked by 1 person

                1. Steve – I did not mean to rail on Clint. As I am listening now to him speaking with Greg Carlwood, I can sense some of his frustration. That said, just like me and others who may insist on either no virus – or lack of virus causality (more where I reside) – we can all have blind spots. No doubt. I am attempting to work through them on my end.

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        2. Steve,
          I know you like Richardson and I confess I haven’t been able to get to the end of any of his writings. Unlike the intrepid Stephers, I wasn’t able to get through this one either. After lecturing me on Hegelian dialectics, he tilts at a straw man:

          So what does this first big step [breaking down the etymological history of the word virus] do to your belief that “viruses don’t exist” or that we create viruses only in our bodies? If you are being neutral and seeking knowledge, then this must mean you don’t believe in poison.

          Um, excuse me, but speaking neutrally and knowledge-seekingly, I know perfectly well that that’s NOT what it means. I am not a delusional fool who is unaware that poisons exist, that they invade the body, and that they cause disease. He might as well just say that if I don’t believe in the transmission of viruses from person to person, I must be completely out of touch with reality.

          Does Richardson address the long history of scientific attempts to prove the contagious nature of such viruses as measles and the Spanish flu? Does he acknowledge that all of these studies have failed–that scientists have never been able to show a person or animal infecting another person or animal with an infectious disease? Does he acknowledge the weird games played with equating computer simulations and laboratory conditions with the behavior of viruses in the actual world?

          If he does, and if there’s a way to point me to his answers, I may give him another shot. But I came to the article hoping he would enlighten me and, even though I don’t yet have a firm position on the issue of germ theory, I felt like he was insulting me. I don’t care if he wants to get nasty about Kaufman specifically and terrain-theorists generally, but don’t insult my intelligence as a curious reader…

          Liked by 1 person

          1. SCOTTRC,
            Fair criticism. It’s likely that I have a blind spot that matches Clint’s blind spot. What you say is obvious, but not what I could “see” until it was pointed out in your comments and those above. I have no answers. I know Clint is big into “gain of function” bio-engineering and the weaponization of everything from microbes to words to the air we breathe, none of which gets a lot of love these days from any quarter. Thanks for your comments.

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  12. Contrary to what Clint may imply to his readers . . . although most of my perspective on viruses has modified in the past year, it has not been primarily due to Kaufman. In fact, I am still on-the-fence when it comes to his view on all viruses being exosomes. Kaufman is only one current voice who has factored into my evolving views. It was from digging deep into ALL of the voices who preceded Kaufman (and Cowan, Fallon, Scoglio, and Dr. Sam Bailey) and this Covid operation – Duesberg, Lanka, Walene James, Janine Roberts, Torsten Engelbrecht, Claus Kohnlein, Rebecca Culshaw, Etienne de Harven, William Trebing, Tedd Koren, James McCumiskey, Dawn Lester/David Parker, David Crowe, and others. Why doesn’t Clint take on all of these voices – sans ad hominem and sans strawman? I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt . . .

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    1. Steve – I see that Clint was on The Higherside Chats (THC) in March, and I missed it. I am WAY behind in listening to Greg’s episodes. In any case, I will listen today, as I want to dedicate more time to understanding where Clint is coming from. Since I do love the THC format, it’s probably a helpful way for me to enter into Clint’s paradigm as best I can. I will give it a shot – with an open mind, once again. From the little I have read his material (and listened to a couple of his You Tube talks), I feel that much of what he says resonates. I am sorry that his April 14, 2021 discourse did not jive with me. Nevertheless, I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and I will dive in . . .

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        1. Thanks Stephers. The more I think about it I suspect there’s a fair amount of frustration being expressed by Clint (not in a flattering way) over the lack of interest in gain of function ideas relating to the Covid experience. Kaufman seems to have gained the support and confidence of a pretty substantial following, leaving little room for a discussion of alternatives in the “alternative media” sector. I don’t see it as a competition, but it’s possible hard-core researchers (like Clint) do. Could be “burnout” from too much of a good thing. I don’t know what’s going on, and will leave the whole world of microbes to others in the future. I have done what I can, and likely have made things worse, not better. Such is life sometimes.

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          1. Steve – In listening to Clint speak, I appreciate all the time and effort he has put into listening to gain-of-function researchers. I follow much of the same, and yet I still have not made the same connection that he has in terms of the COVID situation. In fact, in my own way, I have strayed from both Kaufman and Cowan as well. I hope you don’t “leave the whole world of microbes to others” as I think we need all hands on deck, and more alternative perspectives than the Hegelian model (to lean into Clint a bit) of virus vs. no virus, and germ theory vs. terrain theory. I actually think this has played out in the alt media realm as a division tactic, similar to the contention between cryptocurrency/blockchain promoters and those like me (very few of us) who lean more “purist” about supporting digital currency initiatives. In any case, by bringing Clint’s perspective to light here, I do not think that it “made things worse.” If anything, it helps me to broaden my views (potentially), and perhaps, also, to cement my views in other ways. Regardless, I appreciate you dropping this into the thread today to sharpen my awareness. Maybe others feel the same. At the very least, it has inspired me to revise a section in my post scheduled for tomorrow. I think you will notice when you read it. Thanks Steve!

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    2. “his view on all viruses being exosomes.” Can you reference his saying this? I don’t recall him saying anything sounding so black and white. In his first (I think) video on the subject, he made the observation that the micrographs presented as images of ‘virus’ looked just like published images of exosomes. A case of simple (read intentional) misidentification by virologists. Based on everything I have heard him say, I would sum up his stated understanding as “Exosomes are present, as are other extracellular vesicles, and genetic debris. What logic or evidence leads one to think these particles are “virus”?”

      He did spend time in that first video on discussion of exosomes, but it was merely basic ed and verifying that they are always present, and for good reason….So, I see what has been popularized as the “exosome theory” as a slightly fictionalized version of what he actually said.

      Liked by 1 person

        1. OM – I agree in that Kaufman typically does not speak in such black-and-white verbiage. It’s not in his nature. That was my own complacency reflected in that remark. I should qualify that Kaufman presents the viruses = exosomes concept in a more nuanced, generalized fashion. Hope that helps to clarify (and modify) my comment. It was a bit sloppy, I admit.

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  13. Coming at this from a different angle (the mainstream), and in the context of discussion re Richardson and Kaufman, this paper is very interesting: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4995926/ (extra bonus, Bobby Gallo is co-author)

    Talk about use of language. Clint Richardson uses language as a bludgeon, and attempts to wear one down by the sheer volume of verbiage that he designs to appear “superior” to the argument he is criticizing. He also accuses Kaufman of being clever with language “art”. So, language is important. Yeah.

    Now take a look at how Bobby Gallo (of HIV fame) et al. use language in the article linked above, which dovetails nicely with this Clint/Andy discussion. How many statements in this paper can you find that mix extracellular vesicles (exosomes, etc., called EV’s) with viruses? I’d say about a couple dozen, or close. How many statements gently imply that viruses were present and solidly understood for a long time, and that EV’s showed up recently, and have to be acknowledged, at least?

    Notice the first paragraph following the abstract, and also notice that we are first of all asked to apply the mystic wisdom from Macbeth:
    “The earth hath bubbles as the water has…William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act I, Scene 3”
    Apparently, that “the earth hath bubbles as the water has…”, is supposed to help us understand the inverted (viruses preceding EV’s) logic presented in the paper, starting with this first paragraph:

    “Cells in vivo and ex vivo release membrane vesicles. These extracellular vesicles (EVs) are 50- to 100-nm-sized lipid bilayer-enclosed entities containing proteins and RNA. Not long ago, EVs were considered to be “cellular dust” or garbage and did not attract much attention. However, it has recently been found that EVs can have important biological functions and that in both structural and functional aspects they resemble viruses. This resemblance becomes even more evident with EVs produced by cells productively infected with viruses. Such EVs contain viral proteins and parts of viral genetic material. In this article, we emphasize the similarity between EVs and viruses, in particular retroviruses. Moreover, we emphasize that in the specific case of virus-infected cells, it is almost impossible to distinguish EVs from (noninfectious) viruses and to separate them.”

    Notice, they used to be “cellular dust” or “garbage”, now they can have important biological functions, and they resemble viruses. That’s good news for Virology! EV’s prove viruses! EV’s resemble viruses even more when they come from cells that Bobby has determined are already infected with viruses, because now they pop forth laden with viral proteins and parts of viral genetic material! Again, EV’s prove viruses by acquiring viral proteins!

    The first two sentences of the abstract: “Extracellular vesicles (EVs) released by various cells are small phospholipid membrane-enclosed entities that can carry miRNA. They are now central to research in many fields of biology because they seem to constitute a new system of cell–cell communication.”
    Notice that Bobby doesn’t say “a newly understood system of cell-cell communication.” I read this as another inversion of reality, asserting that EV’s are trying to catch up in their ability to interact with and modulate the ever-present virus population. Evolution ongoing, and virus leads the way.

    “Because of their common biogenesis paths, viruses and EVs may be close relatives, although only the former can replicate in cells.” Hey Bobby, it’s great to know that it’s all in the family, close relatives and all. Also, we accept that viruses replicate in cells, and that EV’s come from outer space.

    “In vivo, EVs can interact with viruses and with each other either directly or via modulation of host responses, thus participating in a “War and Peace” between viruses and host.” Uh, Bobby, we were wondering how you figured out all of this in vivo stuff?? And how you think the “War and Peace” reference helps your argument?

    With satire left behind, I can say that Bobby’s paper is a goldmine of softly weaponized language (speaking of language “art”, Clint), that gently hypnotizes the reader into accepting this cart-before-the-horse explanation of the internal microbial milieu of the human body. If we could remove the word “virus” from the paper, it could easily be rewritten to reflect that “particles” containing genetic information that exist within that milieu are doing just what they’re supposed to do, healing and helping growth. We could suggest to Bobby et.al that when he labels a particle a “virus”, or a “defective virus”, that it’s likely he just doesn’t understand why the body’s cells produced it in the first place.

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