Controlling the Aftermath

(In an effort to provide more manageable comment space for this very Clues Forum style debate over what happened in Vegas, I offer a few thoughts on some of the topics raised.. and yes, ‘Troll’ is right there in the headline…)

I walk in and out of a hospital almost every workday. During a crisis, beyond the private security in the building, local police help with crowd control. My hospital is part of a state university so the campus has its own full time police department. When needed in the building, officers are stationed in the public pathways, not in the ICU or convalescent areas. To secure a portion of a hospital for phantom vicsims beyond public scrutiny would not be difficult. The police are certainly not going to ask inconvenient questions when so deployed.

To keep the press at bay, if there is such a press of true inquiry, hospital spokespeople, administrative types, would be the source for the “facts”. Sometimes doctors speak into the banks of microphones, but you can guess what kind of person in such a position has had to rationalize over the course of his career. I simply don’t trust the media, so I’m of no help here. (The performance of Coroner Carver at Sandy Hook is a classic example of why I can’t trust any official declaration in the aftermath of these stage shows)

Hospitals are not places for mavericks and free thinkers. The people employed follow the rules, malpractice threats being what they are. They are not military facilities, per se, but if told to jump, those in scrubs and even white coats ask: How high? Hospitals run on grants, state appropriations and donations from extremely wealthy people. They are well oiled machines to process the living and the dying, and turn a profit as they go. They are tightly controlled environments.

Ambulance companies in Clark County are privately owned. AMR and the recently licensed Community Ambulance, which began operations last year, have all the business in Vegas. The state of Nevada does not fund mobile medical units in Clark County. The CIA had it’s own airline (Air America) and the concept of Intel owning its own ambulance fleet and manning them with military personnel tricked out in EMT garb does not break any laws of physics. Any business in Las Vegas is likely owned in part by the corporations that allow business to take place in that huge sandbox. A new EMS outfit being installed in the county could very well have been part of the planning. How long will Community Ambulance personnel remain in their jobs before moving out of the area?

As for California being overrepresented on the vicsims’ list, off the top of my head, they were probably culled from several military bases the Golden State plays host to. Is that too logical?

The few videos I have seen are not convincing in selling this “massacre”. Plus, they probably would not be admissible as evidence, or would be picked apart by any professional cameraman or editor under oath. I think of Orson Welles’ film of ‘Macbeth’ where he made a couple dozen extras look like an entire army by utilizing trick camera angles and rhythmic editing. Videos should be the last port of call for bolstering the official view, IMO. That medium is way too malleable.

In the aggregate, I stand by the claim of a crime free hoax. If personnel are actually injured, I imagine the waivers signed when sworn in for duty look a lot like any industrial worker’s contract. As Super Chicken frequently reminded his assistant, Fred: “You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.”


93 thoughts on “Controlling the Aftermath

  1. I wonder if every aspect of the event from non-involved onlookers to victims to ambulances and medical personnel to coroners and YouTubes is under strict control so that the entire event is hermetically sealed.


    1. My sister works for the owner of the funeral home in Alvaredo, TX. that was credited in the local press for donating the services of 8 hearses and drivers to the families of the victims of the Southerland Springs, TX church massacre for their phoney services last Wednesday. The story being reported is not accurate because the man who arranged to have the cars and drivers sent down there and who talked to the press about it is the father of the woman who ownes the funeral home. He currently works as an independant dealer selling new and used hearses and limousines to funeral homes here in Texas and surrounding states. His daughter purchased the funeral home from him a few years back after disagreements they had over the way his new wife’ (30 yrs his junior) was running the family business. Their relationship has been rocky ever since. He arranged it all on his own, without her knowledge, and then lied to the press about where the cars and drivers came from in order to get his daughter’s funeral home some free press. I just wanted to clarify that part of the story.

      I spoke with him and he mentioned how peculiar it all seemed. They couldn’t afford hearses and their caskets had all been taken care of for them. He said he offered the use of his lowering machines and would try and help find more but they already had 8 of them ready to go. He couldn’t believe they were able to find that many and have them ready to go, basically out in the middle of nowhere Texas. A lowering machine is the device that lowers a casket into the ground at the gravesite, and he said it would be difficult to locate that many at once where they were.

      He said everything was taken care of already and all they needed to do was show up and drive. They wouldnt even let them help with the loading or unloading of the caskets.

      He also mentioned how he got to see the inside of the church and how it was all patched up and freshly painted. He said the pews had all been removed and all that remained were single emty chairs, set up at random places throughout the room. He was told they marked the spots where people had been when they lost their lives.

      Give me a break!!!
      Is this the kind of stuff people are accepting as reality these days?

      The alledged shooting of 26 people had only occurred 17 days prior!! And yet they had time to thoroughly investigate, clean up the biohazard crime scene, completely remodel and stage it for dramatic effect so that they could hold funerals? Impossible.

      There was a video on YouTube 3 days after this was said to have occurred shot by a man who lived not to far frombthe church. He made his way close enough to film the front of the church and you can see what appears to be a crew of painters and whatnot working on the outside and inside of the church, 3 days!!!

      Liked by 1 person

      1. The funeral parlor is a key player in any death hoax, and there are many low key, news-column-filling “deaths” with fake funerals, apart from those resulting from world wide reported “terror” and other mass “killing” and “dying” events.
        Everyone has their price. I’d wager there are plenty of empty/sand filled caskets going underground. How about this TX line up then – 3000 invited mourners and media kept away? Really! Just a staged media event.
        Are there any funeral businesses which have a moral compass? Or is the fake funeral part of the job description? Are they going to shout out that intel asked them to carry out some fake funerals and say they turned the job down on moral grounds? Doubt it. Or all those firefighters, doctors, paramedics who turn out for a drill and it’s reported that x people were shot/run down but they only treated crisis actors and dummies, have they a moral compass, or is faking part of their job? Must be. It’s hopeless. The lie machine is all-enveloping.

        Liked by 2 people

        1. Money is the ultimate motivator. I can’t imagine the proprietor of a funeral parlor, especially one out in a rural area, turning down an opportunity to get paid top dollar for essentially nothing. 8 caskets, 8 embalmed corpses with grave plots and burial services can be very expensive, costing upwards of 30 to 40 thousand per body. That’ would be like wining the lottery to most people.


      2. Jack33, with your permission I’d like to use this comment as a (stand-alone) post some time in the next few days, since it offers valuable first-hand evidence. I would not add anything to it.


        1. That would be fine Mark.

          It’s not my best writing and there are typo’ s throughout. I was lying in bed half asleep when I wrote it.
          You have my permission to at least fix my typo’ s. I insist actually.



        2. Mark, I apologize for not referencing the article or name of the newspaper the article ran in. I persinally have a copy of the newspaper. I haven’t even looked to see if it’s online -I would assume it is.

          It ran on the front page of the Tuesday, November 21st edition of the Cleburne Times-Review.


    1. The scariest thing about that IMDB list is that the thousands of extras, or ‘background’ artists’ as they are called now, aren’t named.


      1. Absolutely on point. Actors for hire is almost guaranteed to get a long line of people to show up at casting call… Locals, pros, plants, you name it, all have a shot. Not hard to compartmentalize that, or the “drill” (“just follow the script”) aspect of these violent scenes, IMO. Only a few experienced herdsmen are needed to drive livestock in almost any direction. I do love your writing(s). Thank you.


  2. Clear and structured thinking, I also love your writings Tyrone.

    A question I had in relation to Maarten’s fair and balanced (any links to MSM nutworks is completely coincidental; his writing about the 1985 “I was fake news” really convinced me to join here) question: how do we know really nobody died?

    I imagine, but please elaborate on this point from your personal experience, much more hands-on than mine, that after 9/11 a lot of policies changed, and after subsequent hoaxes bit by bit even more. I also imagine a hospital of a decent size in the US has an “anti-terror unit” or THIRST (Terror Health Incident Response Security Team -this acronym is made up of course); a controlled unit specifically for the case there would be a “terrorist attack” in that city/county/whatever.

    Is that the case? Do you know of the existence of such specific units? Or do “terrorist attack victims” arrive alongside the standard real car crash victims and get just in the same line as everyone else?

    The thing is; if such dedicated THIRSTs exist, it becomes much easier to control this whole “real deaths and injuries” vs “fake deaths and injuries” question; you just have to control and keep silent one unit and not the whole organization of a hospital/clinic. The fragmentation, and the THIRST medic just tells the non-THIRST medic at lunch he/she treated the “terror victims”, spreading the false news.

    Maybe others know of such units in earlier “terrorist” events? Like Boston, Orlando, etc.?

    As a side question; this clown Carver at Sandy Hook, was he a real coroner; did he really work there for years, people knew him, etc. or was he just hired for the hoax and New in Town, let’s say?



  3. I believe that one day soon there will be a glaring, off the wall,HUGE mistake with a FF and it will be laid open for all to see. Coming soon to a theater near you…


    1. Wasn’t that the case already with Sandy Hook? At least for me that was THE eyeopener into hoaxing. And for many more. It was so ridiculous and amateuristic that it’s just impossible to escape…

      Shills say “why would they be so foolish to stage something so obviously, it cannot be a hoax”.

      That would require the perpetraitors to be perfectionists. They are psychopaths, psychopaths are not perfectionists, they are gamblers, they like to play their hand. And they are sloppy, knowing the vast majority (the famous 95 percent) will buy it.

      At every new hoax new people wake up, so that’s only gaining for the 5 %, but still we will be a minority.

      I’d be surprised if it gets more ridiculous than Sandy Hook, but I stay open to be amazed, even in this “new” cynical world view.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. I don’t think so.
      All of it is already quite obvious to see, but the great majority of the 95% are not just ignorant, they actively refuse to see. The idea that their “democratic leadership” pulls such stunts to keep them in fear and submission, that their livelihood is a lie, is too much for them to bear.
      I had people telling me that straight to the face. Conformity is more important than free will or thought. No great awakening coming soon, only scripted revelations …


  4. Tyrone McCloskey,

    This is the first post of yours I have read. I’m impressed.

    I like the IMDB reference. How many movie viewers sit thru the end credits? Besides naming the stars and their favorite director(s) would that be it for the average viewer?
    After watching the credits roll by for ten minutes or so the amount of personnel involved is like an army, each department a division.
    Paralleling that to staged events producers would be corporations, banks the backers and the bottom line the guiding hand. There would be a director and a political director that would have final say. Then again, never had lunch with any of the above.
    For the rest of us shouldn’t there be by now a book “Staging Events for Dummies”?

    I suppose working as management in a hospital is like other organizations where the end goal is retiring with a pension/benefits without getting a blemish on your record, ie. having an incident involving outside lawyers. Tunnel vision. It’s not easy, a small example, the higher up the food chain you rise there are less safe topics for informal conversations except sports. In a staged event I guess that would be the least of your Machiavellian concerns. Compliance would be implied and understood.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. I think every footage of such scripted events is being prepared in advance using all available technology and made look bad on purpose. When TPTB decide to pull the hoax, they only need to block some area in time from onlookers and to make some decorations. Since nobody can get near and nobody can claim to be a witness they don’t have to care about the details that much. I think all we then know about such dramatic events is what they let us know and is a part of the hoax including all the doubts. And the actors keep to themselves like Jehovah’s Witnesses or any other closed religious group.


    1. Columbine affirms this point of view, as I came to see it. I went in with the assumption that there were indeed two kids known by others who acted out their part that day, and that police acted as police do, escorting people from danger and trying to isolate, perhaps kill the perpetrators. This made the event confusing, as there had to be an intermingling of actors and regular people, and part of the aftermath then would be coercing regular people into silence. That takes force and continued management over time, which is way too much work.

      What I learned, and only slowly (which is why I have to spend so much damned time on these things) was the Columbine was a movie set, and that the first thing they did was to remove all non-actors from it so that the real actors could fulfill their assigned roles. They evacuated the school in an orderly fashion and cordoned it off. The function of police that day was to keep the set pristine, to prevent contamination of the event by anyone who was not part of the script. Thus did police stay out of the school and prevent others from going in. By advance planning they had installed cameras in the cafeteria, and only there, and filmed critical parts of the hoax long before the event, in my view, the previous June when the school was locked up and all staff on hiatus.

      But enough of Columbine. I am merely suggesting this to be the model for all fake events, to remove non-actors from the scene, and take rigid control of it using police to keep pain-in-the-ass innocent bystanders out. Then they create the event by some Hollywood special effects, but mostly by means of suggestion using controlled news. Thus are all of the videos and personal testimony we are seeing scripted – that more than anything is what it selling this event as real.

      So the question in my mind is “How did they separate actors and concert goers?” Crazy-sounding thoughts have occured to me – are they all extras? (No. Too much post-event management.) Was there really a concert? (I can’t say.) Were there loud noises sounding like gunshots? If there was a real concert, did these supposed events merely take place after the crowd had left?

      It is too much to take in right now and my thought processes are clouded by anger at the 95% so easily bought off and under control of the visual media. I need distance and time to get a better view, and to again come to grips with the 95% as always being useless eaters.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. non open air concerts may be the easiest ever to control for you need a ticket to get in. Just keep in mind, we only see what they show us and even if you live near the place and hurry you won’t get in because it’s already closed. You won’t be a witness to anything interesting. I worked in Frankfurt in 2015 when there was that blockupy event. They put one single car on fire in the early morning around 06:30, when there were almost no onlookers, took all the pictures from different angles, extinguished the fire around 07:15. That was the time I came to work that day. I saw the dump still rising from the just extinguished fire. I walked like maybe 100 meters from that car. There were no protesters at all at that time. Police just started to block the big street (Mainzer Landstraße) where later the “March” took place. The entire day German news were showing pictures of “Frankfurt on fire”. I was there and nothing of it was true. My colleagues, who did not leave their offices that day to check for facts preferred to believe the mainstream. Only few of them have seen the car and did not make the connection. That’s how it always works. Suggestions and impressions instead of facts.


  6. Mainstreamed stories confirm your suggestions and give insight about how it’s possibly done.

    I found a video with 3 witnesses from the Sunrise Hospital and Medical Center (SHMC), where they recount Sunday night events. You may have much better eye for spotting crisis actors, the video is here, only 1m50s long. Dr. Dean Polce, anesthesiologist, is right at the beginning of that video, I made a screenshot of his saddest face he was able to produce:

    Here they say: “A number of wounds were similar to the kind seen on the battlefield, prompting University Medical Center staff to call four Air Force trauma surgeons who were taking part in a visiting-fellow program at the hospital. They are used to seeing those things,” Fraser told The Post.”

    Seeing? How about treating or dealing with? What to think about the term ““those things”? Those thing would probably mean injuries or gunshot wounds, right? Or was he actually saying the army men are used to seeing “those things”, such as fake wounds and crisis actors?

    Then here you can watch the story of Maj. Charles Chesnut and Lt. Col. Jason Compton, both U.S. Air Force surgeons, volunteered at University Medical Centre (UMC) to treat people who were wounded in the Las Vegas shooting on Oct. 1. , and their “testimony” confirming the official narrative. Chesnut starts with: “ At 10:08 PM I was asleep in my bed….”, an “ace” and an “eight” introduce the rest of the story. Coincidence, right?

    So UMC were apparently calling in even army staff to help, and these surgeons are then conveniently able to describe the type of inflicted wounds as “This is exactly like what we have seen in the war

    A very telling quote with my bolded text:

    “UMC had some inkling of what to expect, thanks to a training session for first responders that the hospital hosted in July.

    “Ironically, the last training we had was from the Pulse nightclub,” Ms. Cohen told CBS News.
    The star guest at the training was Dr. Gary Parrish, medical director of Orlando Regional Medical Center, who was on site in June 2016 as the victims from the Pulse nightclub shooting came pouring in.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. The “shooters” paternal g-grandmother was Maria Koehn. Her brothers Frederick and Henry owned the controlling interest in the American Manufacturing Company of Sheboygan Wisconsin, which employed 500 workers.


      1. Stephen “the shooter’s” maternal g-grandmother was Maria Sidonie Gunderson (neé Koehn), daughter of John Fred Koehn and Sidonia Koehn. From there his family links are scrubbed, but it’s interesting to note that Stephen is a Koehn from both his parents’ side. Case of in-breeding?

        It also seems that “shooter’s” father Patrick Paddock, with full name Patrick Benjamin Paddock, aka Bruce Werner Ericksen, was another spook. That is if we can trust the source here, which says about Benjamin, in short:

        he was a bank robber,
        not just on the FBI Most Wanted List, but
        was an ex convict who escaped prison multiple times and
        lived years under a fake name(?) of Bruce Werner Ericksen in Oregon until he was caught by police

        Fun facts from here :
        – removed from the FBI’s Most Wanted list on May 5, 1977, that is 5/5 77 ;
        – Benjamin was running a bingo game at the Bingo Center while in Oregon
        – was serving his first jail sentence in Las Vegas, where he was arrested while on the run


        1. Totally agree with you about the father’s bio. It screams “spoook!” But I think you’re mistaken about maternal and paternal lines leading to Koehn. His mother isn’t listed on the genealogy sites. Only his dad. His dad’s mom leads to Koehn. But his dad’s dad doesn’t. As for his mother we don’t know.


          1. You are right about Stephen’s maternal lines, mea culpa.

            Stephen’s mother is scrubbed, where his father Patrick can be followed on both sides. Following Patrick’s maternal side, I found Koehn, which is I obviously what Kevin had mentioned. Following his paternal lines traces them back in time to northern France as Paddoc, where his 10g-grandfather was Lord Paul Paddoc (here), then to Ireland where their family name adds “k”, changing it to Paddock. Lord Paddoc was previously a Paddoch, so we see quite many changes to it within 3 generations. They arrive to the States as Paddock, where even Washington can be later found intermarried while following Patrick’s paternal line to mid 19th century.


  7. The “95%” have been literally absorbed by the state-sponsored criminal enterprise in all its dimensions. Once individuality and self-worth have been destroyed, usually at a very young age, the new “reality” is whatever the screen (large and small) say it is. Changing realities is not so easy once the mind has been tricked by “the system.” As McLuhan describes (roughly): “fish are unaware of being surrounded by water.” So too, are we, generally, unaware of being surrounded by criminals and their sophisticated, now decades old, propaganda (our substitute environment) and the techniques used to control the minds of the masses. There is no reverse, mass exodus possible. One-by-one they will escape, or not.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Those 5% are easily fooled.
    Just show some crazy photos and they are sure; No deads at all.
    That’s very lazy “thinking”.
    My earlier reply (in “What happens”) didn’t show up.
    Why Mark?


    1. I found it. It has been crazy these past three days, so don’t jump to conclusions. It was in trash but I don’t recall putting it there, and it certainly did not warrant being there.


  9. Spot on. Many years ago I was a police officer at the University of Texas Medical Branch Galveston. UTMB had its own campus police force and it was deadly serious about security and privacy. I had just done 6 years in the Air Force and this Hospital was run with the same military precision.


    1. Or maybe that’s a common thing for upper-eche law enforcement? It just jumped right off the page at me when I saw it, maybe it’s nothing.


  10. Spoke with someone yesterday who was a “close friend” of one of the dead in LV. Got the name and she does appear on the list. Oddly she has no presence on Facebook and only a couple of google results in the first 10 pages that aren’t news stories about the event. For a single woman in her early 40s who was attractive and a professional, seems unlikely. She appears in a couple of professional directories with minimal info, but I checked a person I know who has no more information listed, so it’s not uncommon.

    Perhaps she was seeded into a community to make connections to create these types of real life stories? Someone set up a “memorial page” on Facebook for her. Last name is a So Cal city, another oddity…


    1. question: The person you spoke to claiming “close friendship”…was it someone you know personally or just some person online saying they knew the “deceased”?


  11. TMCc,

    Dang …
    You’re were right about the “Charles’ Angles” photoshopped image of the police car in the middle of the road with three policeman and three civilians. In a new updated version some guy with wearing a plaid shirt (which maybe the uniform of the day for the actors) entered from the foreground stage right side which was convenient since it covered up the incorrect feet of the cellphone guy in pink T-shirt ( T-shirt for comminicators, burgundy shirts for crowd controllers, who knows?). Kneeling guy at the left of the patrol car has no left foot. Or shirt, go figure.
    That may be the Achilles Heel of the photoshopped images, usually the feet are wrong. The figures are floating due no shadow or wrong placement.
    Youtube video “Why are ANY Las Vegas Shooting Pictures Photoshopped?”, 18:17 min, by Critical Thinking illustrates this very well. (Sorry no link).

    Btw, the location of the “Charlies’ Angles” image with it’s lightpole, is about in line with the Luxor Hotel, Lion and obelisk, on the back road to the concert area and a block or so away from an airstrip.
    (Not to be outdone for shlock, the M. hotel has large Dragons with wings by the water fountain guarding the entrance. The places, er motels, I can afford don’t even have a stone pekingese dog or lawn jockey holding a lamp. So I think it’s humorous when Eric P., the alleged shooter’s brother, in his second interview say $100,000 is not a big deal. Below that you’re just little-people.).

    And, wait for it, enter the Lt. Colonel.
    Lt. Colonel Jason Compton, along with Major Charles Chesnut … and the Queens Dragoon Guards stationed nearby at Hooters.


  12. PS02,

    I swear this is the ….
    But forgot to pay tribute to the door to rm. 32-135.
    According to an online timeline, after being left ajar and approached by house security 200 rounds ( high-powered?) were fired thru the door only later to be ‘bleached’, forced open by charges. Whelter the rounds traveled down the corridor or the room opposite 32-135 wasn’t mentioned. There was another door in the used adjacent room.
    Compare that description to the photo of the door.

    Miscellaneous observation: in the afterevent photos of the room there was a neatly arranged stack of rectangular long blocks that resembled the facade of a hotel two or three blocks north of the Man. Hotel. ?
    Not my observation but the rifle with tripod seen though the open double doors of rm. 32-135 in the photo is labeled 16 or 91 upside down.

    Google Earth in 3D allows you to get a feel for the area. With all the information it’s helpful to have a mnemonic device to attach that info to for comparsion and reference especially if like me your I.Q. is room temperture.



  13. PS03,

    … just kidding.

    I did mention I am in the lower percentile of the 95%.

    (Apologies to TMC2. Excellent post, really.)


  14. Great post, Ty, and thanks for taking the time to personally address some of the issues I had trouble with. I still have trouble with them, frankly, but ultimately I think my misgivings boil down to the ‘too many co-conspirators,’ which is an argument I don’t believe in and have picked apart at great length. Anyway you offer some good food for thought.

    I want to leave to links here. The first is to a youtube video that is (allegedly) of someone who was in the hospital lobby (I assume it was the ER entry) when people started to pour in. The video speaks for itself, but suffice it to say the women taking the video, apparently Cuban, really couldn’t understand what was going on and why the people didn’t really seem to be injured. It really does look as if it’s from drill:

    The guy who posted that has some other videos. Parts are a little bit off, but there are some good catches as well: like the screen cap of a in interview with a witness near the scene where you can see two huge U.S. Army tractor trailers in the background. Also, it turns out there were something like 20 off duty San Diego Policemen there “attending” the concert plus “countless” (according to the news report) first responders. Again, these people were in attendance at the concert. Allegedly. I saw somewhere else that 12 Israeli “diplomats” that were “on the ground” in Las Vegas have now all been accounted for (as if their fate was ever in doubt):

    The second video is someone picking apart the video I posted in comments in the other post — the one where they guy is going through checking out all the casualties. I haven’t had a chance to look at it, but it seems promising:

    As a final note, I’ll just say that there isn’t much debate over at cluesforum. You either toe the party line or you’re out.


    1. I saw somewhere else that 12 Israeli “diplomats” that were “on the ground” in Las Vegas have now all been accounted for (as if their fate was ever in doubt) …

      Would be interesting to see if any of them matches the 9/11 van roof dancers …


    1. I am thinking; what a strange “reflection” in the glass door on the left.
      * it looks like it reflects the lady walking there in the hallway, but how does that work from that angle?
      * it looks like the red line on the floor is not reflected, if it indeed is that lady with that posture and typical hair, under an impossible angle
      * if it is not supposed to be that lady, where is the reflection coming from and how come there is another lady with that same hair and same posture somewhere else?


      1. Honestly, it all looks normal to me, not that I am any kind of expert. The reflection in the glass is the gal down the hallway. The woman is bent over slightly to get something or is in the process of bending over. But like Becky says, it is innocuous.

        Someone said they preceded photos and YouTubes with graphic content warnings, whcih scares most people away, but then the content is not at all graphic.


        1. I believe what Gaia is trying to say is that we should see the reflections of everything in the main scene, in the glass, if we see anything at all like that. I do a lot of work with reflections for a living (architectural visualization) and I spotted that immediately as well.

          The parallax will be off here, but this is an overlay example of how the reflection SHOULD look:

          We should definitely be seeing some red stripe there, even just a little.


    2. Yes, I still have trouble wrapping my mind around it. Not specifically for Las Vegas, but for all the hoaxed events (except for Brussels, where they were brought to a military hospital). But hey, I am 100% sure that the Boston bombing, for example, was hoaxes, despite the fact that I still don’t know how they managed the hospital situation. But I don’t have to have every angle figured out. Anyway you should watch the video I posted above from the hospital ER entryway.


    3. That hospital scene could be anywhere. I’m also pretty sure that no one gets into a hospital with open wounds spilling blood on the floor. And gloves tossed on the ground? You’ll say: But its like a war zone. No time for neatness. Exactly. Little details to sell the big lie.


    4. I am bringing this comment in from “Pau” from a different post above, as you two may have missed it. It certainly grabbed my attention:

      Supposedly all these people were running toward the airport a mile away. According to Fox News, some 300+ of them ran there for safety. The airport was closed due to security reasons. Or was it closed so that these people could secretly be loaded back onto the planes that flew them in to participate in this hoax? A relative of mine worked in hospital management. Said they had to have 3 drills a year & hospital employees were encouraged to participate. Could the Gaming Industry also be required to have drills?


      1. I saw that and the idea of flying the crowd of extras out of the area is something I would not have thought of, but sounds reasonable. The migrating birds got out of Dallas within hours of the JFK show. Some by bus, train or plane.
        As for drills, I know my work has fire drills that are graded for efficiency, easy access routes etc. Fire drills in expensive hotels, I don’t know.


        1. Other than allowing for supplied sound effects, the hotel was probably not involved. What is so absurd is that 300 people ran one mile to a location that what … sheltered them from deflected bullets? They were safe as soon as they were on one of three other sides of the hotel, or far enough away that the bullets would be done in by gravity. This story is cover to explain why so many people ended up in the same odd destination.

          I am going to start getting angry with the 95% again, so I’ll stop.


  15. I thought this was somewhat interesting. I have gone waaaay too far down the rabbit hole today, but am still feeling like this is some kind of hybrid event. I think people were shot. And from poking around, it appears there was ‘activity’ (shooting, chasing) happening at Bellagio, New York New York, and possibly Monte Carlo. I’m confused though… sounds like piped in audio of machine gun fire… possibly to cover actual shooting on the ground??


  16. My thoughts on this one have taken some time to sort out. My take on this is a bit different.
    1.the blood drive was a new layer of “realism” to the psyop. If all these people were shot then blood may be needed to help the victims. We were expecting the money grab but instead TPTB looked at their plan and addressed one of the usual clues that would have been neglected and easily gave their game away. As we pondered the blood request, they had time to slap some more fake testimonials on the web, get their story straight and tighten up the narrative.
    2. I agree that this was pre filmed and a controlled environment to a point. The supposed dead bodies that we saw in pictures and video were done earlier. I think that at the concert after the first round of shots panic did break out. All the non crisis actors, the actual music fans, did a mad scramble to get to safety. As with all crowds in panic situations injuries resulted. These actual people were the ones taken to the ER for maybe bruises, cuts, sprains etc. These injured people believe that they were shot at and miraculously survived. These are the people who now have a stake in the event being real and these are the people that are spreading what they believe to be the truth. These are the cousins, coworkers, and colleagues that were there and got hurt. The bandages, casts, and cuts are reminders of the concert and bring home the fear to the 95 percent. It also means if someone was sitting on the fence trying to decide if this is a false flag or not, chances are they will believe the MSM narrative.
    3. I think that there is a certain amount of collateral damage death in some of these events. I think that it is strategic elemination of people for TPTB’s personal gain, or a way to get rid of a problematic person or make good on a threat to someone. Buried in the list of names of the supposed dead in all of these false flags, there could be a connection between some of these people and events that played out after each one. Events that moved TPTB closer to their goals.

    That’s where my head is at.


  17. Thanks so much for this blog and outlet and place to learn. I have been obsessing on the vegas event for a week now, pouring over things, my brain is aching for truth.

    A couple new things that have popped up for me today:

    The getty images that are so staged. I kept looking at all that trash and thinking it didn’t seem right. And, someone had mentioned that some of these things they photograph or film beforehand. So, I was wondering if they possibly shot those photos on one of the prior nights of the festival after it was over? Then I happened to see an aerial photo of the ‘day after’ the shooting as the venue was being cleaned up. I’ll post it here…. What do you see? I see CHAIRS. Lots of CHAIRS that people ran off and left. In the staged photos, NO CHAIRS because no one had run off. Just a thought. I don’t know.
    Someone had floated the idea that helicopters had been used. After examining some video, I could see a light of an aircraft crossing behind the Mandalay Bay right before the first shots are heard. Also, this is a blurb from one of the first LA times articles off the press on Oct.2… before the story changed…

    ‘Two men near Mandalay Bay said they heard someone in a helicopter with a bullhorn yelling, “Go! Go! Go!” as the incident unfolded. Others said they saw police and SWAT teams streaming into the hotel.’



    1. “I was wondering if they possibly shot those photos on one of the prior nights of the festival after it was over?”

      I had the same epiphany last night. Many of the pictures are weird because you see some people doing normal things that people do at a concert, like calmly standing in line to buy pizza, while others are cowering in fear. It’s this strange mix of pedestrian and panicked. So I was thinking: they probably took the pics on one of the first two nights of the concert of the normal people doing normal things, then later photo-shopped the panicky people into the pics.


  18. On the one hand, U.S. Intelligence is so vast, has such reach and power, that they can organize and pull off the biggest shooting hoax (by # of victims) anyone’s ever seen. Coordinating tens of thousands of extras and support personnel. And they can do CGI like no one’s business. They can morph faces in real-time to the point that they’re almost indistinguishable from the real person.

    On the other hand, they’re so sloppy they can’t even match gun sounds properly even with all the time in the world to cover just these sorts of details. Huh.

    On the one hand, the mainstream’s job is largely to keep you controlled and moving down one cattle-shoot or another. Left/Right, Us v. Them, Fake v. Real news and so on.

    On the other hand, those “truthers” so adamantly demanding you “wake up” and realize that this event can only be either “this” or “that”, hoax or false flag/real, are just trying to help you on your path to enlightenment.

    On the one hand we have a group of people with so much power and reach they own the media, own Vegas, own the body scanners that are probably already being delivered if they weren’t already sitting in a warehouse on the strip, etc. They own the police, most emergency services, the military, hell pretty much everything. They didn’t come to own all this due to their cheerful dispositions and tendencies to strictly abide by the letter of the law.

    On the other hand these same people wouldn’t actually kill anyone because that’s illegal and would just cause problems.

    On the one hand TPTB are constantly monitoring sites and discussions just like this one, in an effort to always be at least one step ahead of the “sheeple”.

    On the other hand it’s probably totally unlikely that they’d craft an Op so as to divide that very community they’ve been monitoring, perhaps by giving the ol’ “truth community” a double-whammy of hoax/hex and false flag. Probably that’s far too clever. These guys can’t even count rounds fired and put the appropriate number of shells on the floor, am I right?

    On the one hand Intelligence adores sprinkling little “clues” throughout their ops, and pulling tricks with numbers, dates, star signs, etc. These are “spook markers” that the spooks themselves conveniently place for us, the sheeple, to discover if we have brains enough. It’s their enjoyable little way of letting us know they care, I suppose.

    On the other hand …. ah forget it.

    I’m astounded that so many people seem to have forgotten the concept of divide et imperium. I’m amazed that so many seem to have forgotten the point of things like Operation Chaos, or for that matter good ol’ Miles Mathis’ warning that virtually all personalities on Youtube etc. are gatekeepers bent on steering you toward the left or right, and that the third way is usually the closest to the truth. He’s told you flat out, more than once, to be very wary of people trying hard to lead you down a certain road to the exclusion of others. He has made quite a name for himself taking that third way, to say the least, yet no one here seems to be able to come to grips with the possibility that Vegas might, just might, be an example of it.

    But probably the single best question everyone needs to be answering for themselves is, “Exactly what level of evidence would you personally require?” Do you need to actually touch a dead body? What would suffice? I can’t imagine a photo or video would be accepted, even though the huge debate over the veracity of such evidence forms a large part of what anyone here does, indicating that you feel you would recognize a genuine photo or video from a fake.

    But honestly what would suffice, for you? Would you have to personally know a victim and see the whole thing through from identifying their body to putting them in the ground?

    These are legitimate questions, and if you cannot answer them you have no business investigating anything. The point of an investigation is to determine what happened, and in this case you must first determine if anyone actually died. Anyone. Who here has completed 590-some investigations already, and upon what evidence in each case did you make your decision? What sufficed? Because as far as spreading ‘the truth” goes if you make even a single mistake you’re going to find your baby self tossed right out with the bathwater.

    There is no shortage of investigation material here. Whether it’s videos or photos or witness statements or numerology or whether someone spots Waldo in the crowd there is plenty to look at, plenty of number-crunching to do. But there are also almost 600 alleged victims, and crowing “fake” right now about every single one of them seems like a bit of an investigative leap, no? I’ve not seen a single decent argument for why there cannot be any actual victims. Not one. Every argument for that idea that’s been put forward falls due to its own lack of internal logic and consistency. You cannot simultaneously have an all-powerful TPTB who manage society with the flick of a switch and a bumbling, error-prone TPTB that’s worried about a family lawsuit. That’s a joke, right? You cannot simultaneously posit a group who is “above the law” in every way imaginable and yet would turn squeamish and balk at actually murdering anyone. These are the same people who happily bomb the living shit out of people on the other side of the globe using toy planes. The same people who sold you WMD in Iraq then raced off to obliterate who knows how many innocent Iraqis. The same people who (allegedly) dropped nuclear freaking bombs on hundreds of thousands of people. (And before you say that’s fake, too, remember that the commonly accepted alternative among “truther” communities is that they only firebombed it instead. So…. yeah. They burned people alive for real as opposed to fake incinerating them in a nuke blast. That doesn’t exactly scream “regard for human life” or a desire to minimize actual harm, does it?)

    Has it not occurred to anyone how neatly so many of these “anomalies” dovetail right into the whole “fake news” thing? People on video shouting “they’re fake gunshots” or “people aren’t hurt” etc. etc. Amazing how you can hear such words ring out so clearly in several of these videos. If there’s even a single legitimate victim then the louder anyone screams “it’s ALL fake” the more attention will be drawn to “fake news” and “conspiracy sites” etc., and the more every truthseeker will be demonized and used as fodder for the next round of “congressional oversight merry-go-round” where its decided that we really need to get a handle on the web and all these terrible people spreading lies, oh and also we need a ton of new body scanners in Vegas.

    I am not insisting this event is “totally real”. Neither am I denying that some of it appears ludicrously”fake.” I’m trying once again to remind everyone that the restrictions you have placed on it are your restrictions, and are not necessarily the same as those of TPTB or whoever pulled it off. Even if only one single actual victim exists you will still be doing the work of Intelligence, dividing and conquering, if you demand that it is all 100% fake. And if you make such a claim without having investigated every single alleged victim you’re likewise guilty of exactly that which you accuse the “unthinking 95%” of perpetrating: namely, a lack of critical thinking and blind acceptance of a narrative, not to mention being guilty of the same crime as the mainstream media, which is to quickly skip past the “what happened” stage and dive right on into the juicy details of how this was done, who pulled it off and what their aims were.


    1. Wow, Joki, deep and thought provoking comment, I really enjoyed reading it.

      But probably the single best question everyone needs to be answering for themselves is, “Exactly what level of evidence would you personally require?” Do you need to actually touch a dead body? What would suffice?

      Similar statement to that of John Locke, saying you can’t really know anything you haven’t experienced with your senses. You then pose few other questions, which would essentially all boil down to trust (or how to be certain about anything). There is however one thing, that I would like you to consider. Reading your comment, I can be fairly sure, we both see media outlets as compromised, which would mean they cannot be trusted about anything in general. Yet your above question, while addressing correct angle of investigative approach, has assumed that the information about anyone’s death in LV shooting – is real. I just disagree here and would like to define this trust issue by turning the situation for 180 degrees. It is not about the doubtful people, who need to prove anything as real, it’s about the TV (and the PTB as their owners) that need to prove their televised content as real. We are constantly defined as conspiracy theorists, yet it’s just the opposite and in reality it’s about the conspiracy of the PTB using TV as their tool when manufacturing the illusion of reality. That’s why no answers can be given by watching or listening to this source and that’s why no trust can be established. Ergo, knowing all that, I’m just following my reasoning to say – there were no real people killed at any events we have looked into. There are as well piles of circumstantial elements, that are all pointing to the same conclusion about the TV as an information medium. So why would anybody aware of all this want to prove some bodies as real? Why really consider this possibility as true? Instead of questioning your investigation procedures, you should ask yourself why do you actually believe that there are possibly real victims? Is there anything that defines this belief, other than you skepticism? If not, you may have nothing more substantial to refute default “LV was a hoax ” position, than anybody who supports it – an assumption. It is very much clear, that we do not know for certain about any real victims, but then any probability of those victims being real is statistically irrelevant, considering our experience with similar past events.

      I’ve already commented and said, that I think we may have been presented some real body as the part of the whole hoax setup. It doesn’t mean these were real bodies as a direct consequence of LV shooting, it means they were planted there to be filmed and shown as real afterwards. That’s what I think about it, but it may be completely irrelevant. I see this possibility as a tribute to us, the “conspiracy freaks”, that shows some progress in their approach while trying to fool us. The debate about hoax vs false-flag option has the same result in shaping the majority’s opinion, doesn’t it? So to add weight to the possibility of “no bodies” theory – why bother with killing any real people, when there are only 5% of those who may notice vicsims? What can we actually do about it? In this present situation, do we represent any real danger to their position of power? Practically, none. No matter what they do and televise as reality, be it false-flag or a hoax, we are left only as spectators. This old Arabian proverb puts things in perspective: The dogs bark but the caravan moves on.


      1. With all due respect to you, g. Vexman, my memory is not that bad and I am bamboozled at reading your comments in a blog that mistreated you badly… perhaps I missed the post where you and mark smoke the peace pipe…


    2. You make some good points, Joki, and our bias can certainly cloud any analysis.

      But along the lines you yourself have drawn, you spend much of your post putting the options into two camps. I’d like to address the one I’m actually qualified to address:

      “And they can do CGI like no one’s business. They can morph faces in real-time to the point that they’re almost indistinguishable from the real person.”

      No, they aren’t and no, they can’t. I know and work with the best CGI folks in the world, from Pixar to Dreamworks to Industrial L&M and beyond. When it comes to people and realism, everyone falters. Everyone. I can spot a CGI person every time – so long of course that we have a decent resolution to work with. So one might argue that since we’re not given a decent resolution, my expertise is instantly nullified, but I can also spot the sure signs of editing and even the best Nukers make mistakes.

      With stills, it’s really easy. With movies, it takes a bit more work because you have to stop the vids and extract frames and almost nobody uses a decent video mode, especially for social media or Youtube. You won’t find good 1080 uncompressed content, much less 4K or anything decent. But the telltale signs of editing are still generally obvious.

      I didn’t see any signs of CGI-type editing in the footage we’ve seen, just shoddy set tricks and fake blood. They didn’t need to and don’t spend money on good CGI for these events – because it’s much, much cheaper to just do it with set tricks. By far. CGI is very expensive, especially if you want realism. Rendering alone is expensive, but that’s the only part the computer really does on its own. The rest is man-hours, and the BEST are already making real money working for film and video games. Unless there’s duress involved, anyone would prefer to work for Pixar or even Autodesk instead of Langley. One pays more. Langley’s not the one, in this case, because you can’t build a career working there. You can’t achieve industry fame. That’s half the currency, right there, for the people in my field, including myself.

      I see your main points however and I think they’re good ones, for the most part. But I don’t personally need to analyze every bio of every vic. The 20-odd ones Mathis wrote up were more than enough for me to have reasonable doubt. Reasonable doubt is all I need.


      1. I feel I need to add, “CGI” in this context doesn’t mean Photoshop (2D) or After Effects, but actual 3D rendering (Maya, Houdini). The distinction is that Photoshop is very easy to learn, not so easy to master, but still easy to use and very fast. But 3D rendered CGI is the complete opposite. It’s never fast, it’s very tedious, and cannot be done in realtime or anywhere near it. So yes, all this stuff has been doctored to some degree and yep that’s Photoshop or an equivalent. But no, there’s no polygon CGI characters of the quality/type they use in movies and VFX. Just sayin’.


  19. Joki…. You make a lot of good points and ask important questions, but must it be so condescending? Reminding me of all the white male Disney executives that would talk down to me in meetings because they were pissed that I was in charge for a moment. Sigh.


  20. Joki, I can only speak for myself, not for others, but I am not claiming there were no deaths/injuries. There could be, I am not excluding that possibility. But from what I have seen, all the claims for deaths/injuries so far seem untrue. So it doesn’t give much “hope” (not hoping people died of course, but hope for an answer to this question) that there were deaths.

    In the end it is quite a non-issue and indeed as you describe a divide-and-conquer strategy.

    But if you keep open the possibility that people died, how exactly would that have worked? With blanks? Trampled by the running crowd? What ways would they have died? And why?

    Miles Mathis has shown so many cases of people just getting new identities and live on. Mark has shown that with John Denver, the zombies in showbusiness, Columbine, and so many other cases. Is it so outlandish to suggest that that is what happened to people who “died”? I don’t think so; why change a proven method?

    What I also do think is that your idea of an impossible combination of “all powerful” and “sloppy” is not there. The fact those people have power doesn’t mean they have to be perfectionists. They are psychopaths. Psychopaths love to gamble, to play, to manipulate. But that always will leave loose ends, there’s no 100% perfect murder, let alone dozens of them, less done in public as these staged events are. It is those loose ends we spot and highlight here, showing they are not perfect in their lies.


    1. When I first watched “September Clues” I asked some clues forum members why there were so many incongruities and mistakes in the footage we were given.
      If all the video representations from 9/11 were created before the event, why weren’t we shown an actual plane crash in Pennsylvania?
      Why no actual footage of a plane hitting the pentagon?
      The response was that they put in these “errors” on purpose. Some sort of technique to confuse us.

      To me, it is an important question, and one I’ve never been able to figure out.
      If all the footage is planned ahead of time, why are there so many ridiculous errors/mistakes?


      1. I think a fair question. But doesn’t that work with everything? “Why are there so many mistakes” isn’t that just because we are humans, and humans make mistakes? Why leave the mistakes in there and not create a “perfect” hoax, with all angles covered, if that is even possible, especially at this scale, the answer imho would be “why bother?”

        Yes, it baffles reason that they hire someone like Gene Rosen as an actor for their hoax, but if they would have hired a good actor, would it be any different? They did get away with using amateurs, right?

        Are you familiar with the concept of Easter Eggs? That is putting in certain “insider jokes” in movies, text or games. Why would they do that? Eh, to have fun? To test people? Or just because they can?

        I think “why?” questions are very difficult to answer. Why stage an event at all? Without knowing those people doing those things, is it even possible to answer that question? Also, there are so many angles. Miles Mathis talked about installing (and selling) body scanners. That’s one angle. Fear, another one. Or just “filling the news for weeks”, keeping people busy? Or just because it makes them feel powerful, to be able to lie and manipulate all the time?


        1. I agree.
          However, while crisis actors are one thing, apparently deciding not to create convincing footage of the pentagon and Pennsylvania crash sites seems different to me.
          Those weren’t just mistakes, those were purposeful decisions by the planners. (if we assume all the footage was created well in advance of the event)
          Perhaps you are correct in proposing that it doesn’t matter “why,” however.


          1. I guess the deeper issue for me (and what I was really trying to get at with the clues forum folks) is that we can’t really trust any video footage, photographs, etc, as “real.”
            So we are left trying to use this footage as evidence of something, or to prove something.
            The most we can do is try to show that some video is fake or has been tampered with.
            But we can’t jump to any conclusions about what is real from that.


          2. On that particular point: 9/11 was a madhouse of inconsistencies. “Plane” 1 morphed into a rigid skyscraper without any resistance, “Plane” 2 folded its wings and produced a hole not much bigger than the fuselage in the Pentagon and “Plane” 3 just left a dug crater in a forest leaving nothing of indestructible plane engines.

            What could be is that they use these inconsistencies they call reality for future hoaxes. “Look, at Shanksville there was no plane debris, so it makes sense that in this ‘terror attack’ in 2021 there is also no plane debris”.


          3. Gaia,
            If that is indeed the case, it would support the answer I received from clues forum…that these inconsistencies are purposeful, and meant to confuse/confound.
            Unless the technology used to create the footage on 9/11 was incapable of producing plane wreckage or a plane clearly hitting the pentagon, then it was done on purpose, for some reason.
            It doesn’t make sense to say they did it to cover for “mistakes” in future events, when they can create and present to us, any images they want to.


        2. Same here… I went out with friends last night and no one even brought up LV in passing. Not once. It is off the front page news… except for the ridiculous bullet points that they add every day… (shot the security guard 6 minutes beforehand, was trying to shoot the fuel tank, blah blah blah…)

          The dumbing down of America using TV programming, processed food, pharmaceuticals, etc. is doing it’s job.

          On the question of Why stage these events? I guess look at outcomes over time…which I’m sure you have all discussed here with more insight, but:
          Money… insider trading, security systems, defense budgets
          Policy… freedoms being yanked
          Division… infighting making the masses weak and the 1% strong
          Fear…. In Disney’s Monsters Inc., the city of Monstropolis is powered by the energy of the screams of human children.

          Happy Wednesday everyone…. ha!


  21. It’s been little over a week now since LV. No one in my circle is even talking about this. They have moved on to the Weinstein perversions or the heart breaking Sonoma fires. And I really think that deep, deep, down the 95% KNOW there was something wrong with the whole event and it takes them much longer to process than those reading these blogs. I find it interesting to read the various comments and learn new details, but for me, it is just a huge reminder of the FEAR these 1% have for the population. I agree with Gaia and I am sure there will be an “event” coming that is SO SLOPPY it would wake up a 3 year old.


  22. Off topic, but Noel just briefly mentioned the wildfires. I happened to turn on NBC Nightly News last night and David Muir was “live” in one of those areas of California. He was walking the viewers through a neighborhood that was completely destroyed. Now here’s the problem:I’m no expert on wildfires by any stretch of the imagination, but how the hell does every goddamn house in that neighborhood burn down, yet there’s still perfectly healthy trees with leaves still on them? Can someone explain that or am I just being “kneejerk conspiritard”?


      1. I am in San Francisco Bay Area and have family affected by this disaster, and many of us are asking these same questions. It’s bull sh*t. My family in Sonoma County are saying “something is very fishy”. I’ve said it before here at POM, it looks like Santa Rosa got hit with a nuke.


        1. Definitely not a nuke. There’s trees still standing everywhere, it’s the houses that have been practically atomized. A blast would knock down trees too – like Mt. St. Helens did in 1980. This is also one of the chief indicators that Hiroshima and Nagasak were fake, and that nukes don’t exist.


    1. Good point. All I know is they chemtrail here like crazy and aluminum BURNS! What might start out like a small ,contained fire now burns beyond control and quickly.


      1. and aluminum BURNS!

        Only in theory. They don’t spray metallic aluminium (which would burn, if “activated”), but Al salts and/or oxide.
        Metallic Al forms a solid and insoluble layer of oxide on the surface after seconds/minutes of exposure to normal atmosphere, and is very difficult to ignite. “Activation” usually means covering with a protective layer immediately after production.
        I suspect arson.


    2. Natwurst: You are actually making a point that others have made, especially many of us here in North Calif. And interesting that fire started on anniversary of great Chicago fire, 10/8. Just like the recent Mexico earthquake hit on the exact anniversary of their last big quake. I have some wonderful truthseekers in my family, and we are all pissed to no end about these strange turn of events in that gorgeous area of the country. Something is not right.


      1. I’m guessing it could be aging hippies protesting “fossil fuels” by burning them on their materialistic houses, and sparing the trees? Very California?


        1. The official rumor is that underbrush from previous rains flourished and then went dry. Then, PG&E towers were tipped over by high winds in the Napa area and all that extra fuel ignited by electrical blow outs+ winds caused the fires. Regardless of numbers, for now that explanation is high on the plausibility index. PG&E will recoup their lawsuit losses with higher rates…and the beat goes on…


        2. I tend to agree … up in Montana they had a horrendous fire year after heavy winter snows and lots of moisture and tall spring grasses, and then came the heat. I don’t know if other places have these dry thunderstorms late in the summer, but I imagine they are common, lightening without moisture, and presto, fires everywhere. The only thing that sparked my curiosity was the burning of the Sperry Chalet in Glacier, a revered old building. When fires get out if hand all fire fighters can do is preserve structures. There is no containing them. The rest is all in God’s hands.


      2. I haven’t spent much time researching it directly, but just did some work for one of the local charities involved and have people on the ground there. By all reports the fires seem very fishy. I’ll look into it more and get back to us with some real evidence.


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